Hot Dogs & Caviar • Hacker News Board

Re: Hot Dogs & Caviar

#21

Post by gatordan » Tue, Jul 24, 2012, 7:48 PM UTC

I can accept bad metaphors and analogies in HN comments; this a technically focused community and the comments are so far above above most online forums that nitpicking about literary devices would be ridiculous. But I can't forgive the hotdog/hamburger/caviar analogy in this full length blog post. It does not convey his message well and really does the article a disservice. This writing should have been more thought out considering it is a follow up to his previous posts on this subject that got quite a bit of attention.

I realize this is somewhat off topic. But as an entrepreneur I feel this is worth noting because I can't overstate how affective a good metaphor (or good, well revised writing in general) can be in persuading others. And as a reader how easily a bad one can turn me off especially when woven throughout your entire piece.

Re: Hot Dogs & Caviar

#22

Post by finisterre » Tue, Jul 24, 2012, 7:52 PM UTC

gatordan wrote: post #21

I can accept bad metaphors and analogies in HN comments; this a technically focused community and the comments are so far above above most online forums that nitpicking about literary devices would be ridiculous. But I can't forgive the hotdog/hamburger/caviar analogy in this full length blog post. It does not convey his message well and really does the article a disservice. This writing should have been more thought…

"I can't overstate how affective a good metaphor (or good, well revised writing in general) can be in persuading others."

Muphry's law[1] strikes again.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry%27s_law

Re: Hot Dogs & Caviar

#23

Post by debacle » Tue, Jul 24, 2012, 8:00 PM UTC

It's a pretty good analogy. FB can't increase the volume of its users all that much, so it has to drastically increase its ARPU to compensate.

But I (and many others) don't think it can.

Re: Hot Dogs & Caviar

#24

Post by arockwell » Tue, Jul 24, 2012, 8:03 PM UTC

gatordan wrote: post #21

I can accept bad metaphors and analogies in HN comments; this a technically focused community and the comments are so far above above most online forums that nitpicking about literary devices would be ridiculous. But I can't forgive the hotdog/hamburger/caviar analogy in this full length blog post. It does not convey his message well and really does the article a disservice. This writing should have been more thought…

What's wrong with the metaphor? How would you have described the problem differently?

I thought it was a really good description of the situation Facebook is in. People have speculated for years about all of the different ways they could produce insane revenue/profits (the hot dog -> caviar machine), but their current revenue (the hot dogs) is very lackluster.

Re: Hot Dogs & Caviar

#25

Post by gatordan » Tue, Jul 24, 2012, 8:09 PM UTC

finisterre wrote: post #22

gatordan wrote: post #21

I can accept bad metaphors and analogies in HN comments; this a technically focused community and the comments are so far above above most online forums that nitpicking about literary devices would be ridiculous. But I can't forgive the hotdog/hamburger/caviar analogy in this full length blog post. It does not convey his message well and really does the article a disservice. This writing should have been more thought…

"I can't overstate how affective a good metaphor (or good, well revised writing in general) can be in persuading others." Muphry's law[1] strikes again. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry%27s_law

Affective - causing emotion or feeling.

I was conscious of my usage although ill be the first to admit i make typos all the time. To elaborate, writing can evoke feelings good or bad, feelings of familiarity or confusion, and these feelings can lend to a more persuasive writing. This was my point in the second paragraph.

Re: Hot Dogs & Caviar

#26

Post by wmf » Tue, Jul 24, 2012, 8:24 PM UTC

A new “social ad unit” will be created at Facebook or Twitter in the next 12 months that will manage to be far more profitable than current ad units, not piss off users, and immediately be embraced by advertisers.

I call them "tweets". Seriously, most tweets are ads, so just charge people to send them. If you have over ~1,000 followers then you are a de facto marketer and you could pay per tweet per active follower.

Re: Hot Dogs & Caviar

#27

Post by ChuckMcM » Tue, Jul 24, 2012, 8:29 PM UTC

gatordan wrote: post #21

I can accept bad metaphors and analogies in HN comments; this a technically focused community and the comments are so far above above most online forums that nitpicking about literary devices would be ridiculous. But I can't forgive the hotdog/hamburger/caviar analogy in this full length blog post. It does not convey his message well and really does the article a disservice. This writing should have been more thought…

You were not persuaded. Fair point. Blaming the metaphor is probably going too far. Perhaps you weren't the intended audience?

Re: Hot Dogs & Caviar

#28

Post by pyre » Tue, Jul 24, 2012, 8:32 PM UTC

wmf wrote: post #26

A new “social ad unit” will be created at Facebook or Twitter in the next 12 months that will manage to be far more profitable than current ad units, not piss off users, and immediately be embraced by advertisers. I call them "tweets". Seriously, most tweets are ads, so just charge people to send them. If you have over ~1,000 followers then you are a de facto marketer and you could pay per tweet per active follower.

  > If you have over ~1,000 followers then you are
  > a de facto marketer and you could pay per tweet
  > per active follower.

Then we start seeing "follower bombs" where the goal is to increase someone's number of followers until they are forced to pay for Twitter.

Re: Hot Dogs & Caviar

#29

Post by gojomo » Tue, Jul 24, 2012, 8:46 PM UTC

huhtenberg wrote: post #20

eps wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want something like this then? http://swapped.tumblr.com/post/22976646861/twitter-is-doing-...

Yes, exactly that.

I think they'll get around to that. A number of their UI nudges discourage people from taking a 'completist' view of reading their stream -- no mark-as-read, no persistent latest-read-indicator, endless encouragements to follow more than could be read. That plus control of the client would let them offer some kind of paid pinning as a service.

Re: Hot Dogs & Caviar

#30

Post by gojomo » Tue, Jul 24, 2012, 8:53 PM UTC

It's not just the prospect that FB or Twitter figure out a new wildly-profitable promotional model themselves, but the prospect that someone else figures it out, and FB or Twitter's large audience/social-net/technology defensible asset is still the best way to deploy it.

Compare: Goto.com (Overture) pioneered pay-per-click auctions, and were already a profitable public company even before Google adopted a similar model. But only combined with Google's natural-search advantages did that model become a profit supervolcano.