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Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

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Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#191

Post by jonstewart »

rayiner wrote: post #98
bsder wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reagan should have been shut down for commercial use many moons ago. It will never be shut down because it's got all the exceptions so that Congresscritters don't have to be treated the same as us plebians.

Not disagreeing, but is there something particularly wrong with DCA?

DCA is great to fly in and out of (I live in DC proper), as it's close, isn't hard to get to, and has a Metro (our subway) station right in front of the terminal, and the airport is fairly easy to navigate once you're in. Dulles now has a Metro station, but it's still far away from the terminal and it's hard to navigate, with gates very far away from the terminal; other than the Saarinen architecture, everything else about Dulles is awful. BWI is even further from most parts of DC; there's an AmTrak station where you can catch a bus, but pretty much you're driving an hour+ and it's in the middle of exurban hell.

DCA is challenging for flights, though, as the approach from upriver over the Potomac requires a sudden bank to the right just before landing and the runway's a bit short (tonight's flight was coming in from the southern approach). The Potomac also has a lot of helicopter traffic, between the military (including POTUS/VPOTUS), US Park Police, DC Police, and civilian flights. DCA's natural advantages have put the screws to Dulles the last 20 years, and Dulles's inability to not suck hasn't helped. As a result, people (including Members of Congress) want more flights out of DCA, so flight traffic has steadily increased. There were two near-misses last spring: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/faa-investigating-colli....

Tonight's crash seems like a colossal screwup by the helicopter. DCA is too popular for flight traffic to cease, but I wouldn't be surprised by further restricting the flight corridors and helicopter traffic, more funding/staffing for ATC, and maybe a small reduction in flights.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#192

Post by reaperman »

highcountess wrote: post #155
reaperman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[2] shows the helicopter taking off 2 miles away from the old saudi embassy in McLean marked “permanently closed” on google maps. (The current embassy is in DC proper, directly across the river from DCA airport) I don’t think thats strong evidence that it took off from the old Saudi Embassy - thats pretty far away even given your caveat about accuracy. Edit: it looks to me like the black hawk was coming from somewher…

Military flights do not fly ADB hot outside of the DC FRZ. It was also clearly exactly following flight route 4. There are a few locations in that area it could have been coming from. Anything else would have made no sense flying through the FRZ from/to Belvoir.

What is "flight route 4"?

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#193

Post by Dylan16807 »

refulgentis wrote: post #190
Dylan16807 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're reading into it too much. It wasn't dismissive. And the framing of "3d" is a reasonable followup to the train comparison.

Well, if it wasn't, it certainly is now! ;)

?? I have no idea what this means.

Are you implying your reply would make the previous post become dismissive?

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#194

Post by mlyle »

wyldfire wrote: post #44
sib301 wrote: post #37

I just listened to the ATC recording from immediately before the collision. ATC instructs the helicopter to pass behind the CRJ. I’m fairly certain a few minutes before that, ATC instructed the helicopter to maintain visual separation, which is common. They typically ask, “do you have the aircraft in sight” and if you respond in the affirmative they rely on you to maintain safe distance. I should mention that in the…

In the video from the webcam there's another plane which is much easier to see. Could they have asked about "the aircraft" and the helicopter pilot mistook which one they referred to? "yes I can see the plane flying much higher"

It's pretty dang easy to misjudge distances and closing rates in a plane or helicopter, especially at night.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#195

Post by WillPostForFood »

addicted wrote: post #186
derektank wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some regulations are written and blood but some regulations are written to cover someone's ass and the two should not be treated equally. We shouldn't give equal respect to the Federal Aviation Regulations and to OPM's Qualification Standards for Federal Jobs; doing so deligitamizes the importance of the former.

Why don’t you identify all these easily found regulations then? There’s a whole YIMBY movement, for example, that has identified specific regulations that are no longer valid and have made tremendous strides in proving and changing these regulations for almost universally better outcomes. So where are all these specific regulations that are so terrible and the evidence that they are indeed net negatives. I absolutely…

There was an awful lot of complaining about rolling back regulations in the first Trump term, so maybe the administration does care about it.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-envir...

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/tracking-regulatory-chang...

^^ includes Trump's first term and Biden's term.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#196

Post by chrismartin »

drcode wrote: post #13
ceejayoz wrote: post #8

Damn. We’ve avoided a US airliner having a fatal crash since 2009.

It's a crazy accomplishment really, unimaginable how safe US commercial airplanes have been in the last two decades So sad that streak finally ended

And in such an avoidable way, too.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#197

Post by jijji »

twoparachute45 wrote: post #28
reaperman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[2] shows the helicopter taking off 2 miles away from the old saudi embassy in McLean marked “permanently closed” on google maps. (The current embassy is in DC proper, directly across the river from DCA airport) I don’t think thats strong evidence that it took off from the old Saudi Embassy - thats pretty far away even given your caveat about accuracy. Edit: it looks to me like the black hawk was coming from somewher…

I didn't say it took off from the old embassy. The flight track starts at the backyard of a house that is currently owned by the embassy. You can see the owner of that property by searching that address here (the site doesn't support a direct link): https://icare.fairfaxcounty.gov/ffxcare/search/commonsearch....

811 Lawton St, Mc Lean, VA 22101 Name: SAUDIA ARABIA ROYAL EMBASSY OF, Mailing Address: 8500 HILLTOP RD STE 301 C/O FINANCIAL DIRECTOR FAIRFAX VA 22031 4310

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#198

Post by echoangle »

jonnybgood wrote: post #132
anigbrowl wrote: post #60

[flagged]

> Given the strange way the helicopter appeared to fly right into the jet there will be no end to the speculation. There's an ATC recording. No speculation necessary. The Army helicopter pilot is likely at fault.

People who take UAP seriously still will speculate, especially since drones can relay audio from controllers to talk to ATC as if they were onboard. People on the internet speculate about things that are a lot more clear than this case.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#199

Post by yieldcrv »

alsodumb wrote: post #149
stall84 wrote: post #83

We really can't have this type of accident, a midair collision happen anywhere in the United States, much less the nation's capital, especially considering the Washington area is some of the highest controlled airspace in the country. DCA has been a high-risk airport really since the jet-age, and I have a feeling this might be the end of it as a major passenger airport (at least for Part 121 operations). DOT/FAA are…

Unfortunately it's not gonna happen. The traffic at DCA only keeps going up, and I've heard chatter that it's because a lot of congressman and senators prefer taking flights from DCA instead of driving to Dulles or BWI.

Cities should have convenient airports

Maybe the evtol technology will alleviate this dilemma

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#200

Post by lovecg »

reaperman wrote: post #25
twoparachute45 wrote: post #19

It wasn't a police chopper, it was a military VH-60, also known as a "White Hawk" [1]. It's a VIP transport helicopter, the same type that is used to transport the president. ~The flight track of the helicopter [2] starts at a property in McLean, VA (edited to remove likely inaccurate info)~ The chopper was based out of Fort Belvoir, and based on similar past flight tracks, looks like it probably took off from there…

[2] shows the helicopter taking off 2 miles away from the old saudi embassy in McLean marked “permanently closed” on google maps. (The current embassy is in DC proper, directly across the river from DCA airport) I don’t think thats strong evidence that it took off from the old Saudi Embassy - thats pretty far away even given your caveat about accuracy. Edit: it looks to me like the black hawk was coming from somewher…

Note that that track is not ADS-B at all. It’s triangulated from mode S pings (“MLAT”, https://www.flightaware.com/adsb/mlat/). I don’t know how accurate these are.
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