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Craigslist Suing Padmapper

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Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#251

Post by stcredzero »

dangrossman wrote: post #195
invisible wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google also indexes this data. Craigslist obviously doesn't own this data as they have DMCA practices in place. They can't claim DMCA and also say that the data is their data.

Read Craigslist's TOS. The copyright remains with the listing author, but they sign over rights to enforce that copyright to Craigslist.

That is a power that, in the past, Craigslist has used for good. In this case, it's a power being used just for the benefit of Craigslist to protect its network effect incumbency, to the detriment of users.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#252

Post by usaar333 »

debacle wrote: post #34
citricsquid wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone is the party we should feel bad for in this case it's 3Taps. They seemed to be flying under the radar until Padmapper started using them.

They're running a service called 'craiggers' that scrapes Craigslist listings and sells an API. It's clear trademark infringement. Why would we feel bad for them?

Alright, perhaps one can argue the name is too close.

But craiggers provides a very valuable service, namely showing pictures of items as you search. It made furniture searching so much easier.

I have zero sympathy for craigslist. They didn't get into their position through "years of hard work". They won the lottery (someone had to win it). They have done zero innovation (other than maybe anti-spam) for years and prevent others from innovating on top. Society wins if they are forced to open their data.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#253

Post by ceejayoz »

stcredzero wrote: post #245
ceejayoz wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posting to Craigslist isn't a Constitutional right. Don't agree with the terms? Don't post there. No one's coercing.

Let me know if you rent your next place without it.

I currently own, but my last place was rented in 2010 without Craigslist. It's entirely possible.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#254

Post by stcredzero »

res0nat0r wrote: post #194
soup10 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like Craigslist because of lock in. Sellers must sell there because they are the biggest market, buyers must buy there because they are the biggest market. Everyone is locked in. Lock-in is super common(and often unintentional or unavoidable), but it goes against the ideal of equal opportunity and competitive markets that rewards companies for a continuous commitment to quality and innovation. I feel that cra…

The reason why Craigslist is valuable is because of it's large network . It is obvious that smaller sites like PadMapper want to slowly try and chip away at Craiglist content (see PadLister) after they hopefully gain enough traction to supplant them. Padmapper / Padlister are fine to start their own sites and have users come and post their listings there, but not to copy content from Craigslist after they specificall…

> It is obvious that smaller sites like PadMapper want to slowly try and chip away at Craiglist content

It's not Craigslist's content. It's our content, the general public's. Craigslist is just a caretaker. Right now, it's a caretaker acting in its own interests against the public's.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#255

Post by res0nat0r »

usaar333 wrote: post #248
res0nat0r wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The users of CL never agreed to let you copy their postings to whatever website you feel like, also it is against their TOS to do so: Any copying, aggregation, display, distribution, performance or derivative use of craigslist or any content posted on craigslist whether done directly or through intermediaries (including but not limited to by means of spiders, robots, crawlers, scrapers, framing, iframes or RSS feeds)…

I would bet that 99% of CL users not only never read this TOS, but they also do not care if padmapper copies their listings.

I've never read my credit card TOS, so I don't have to pay my bills right?

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#256

Post by usaar333 »

DanBC wrote: post #192
moron wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is effectively shutting down Padmapper. Apartment listings are on Craigslist. As I have said elsewhere, I think Craigslist are within their rights here, but the situation still sucks. People want to browse apartment listings on a map, and Craigslist won't let us.

It seems that Craigslist sucks for people trying to find a property. Does it suck for people on the other end - people with a property that they'd like to rent to others? Why hasn't some other solution come onto the market to fix the problems of craigslist?

Nope, doesn't suck for sellers, at least in seller's markets (SF), they don't have to do anything other than list, and renters will flood in.

Due to various factors (demographics, etc.), sellers also tend to be not the most tech savvy people. I can't believe that it is not standard procedure to post a video walk-through these days. A lot of listings lack even a photo.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#257

Post by flinty »

jetti wrote: post #63
Maascamp wrote: post #43

The tone in this article is unbelievable. > The case raises questions over whether Craigslist is stifling innovation or simply protecting its data There is no question. Craigslist isn't stopping Padmapper from being built, its stopping Padmapper from using Craigslist data . The continuous attempts to reframe Craigslist's actions as an attempt to stifle innovation seem almost surreal. I just can't understand how a com…

I agree! On top of that, the ability to free-ride off of other's data without permission could be seen as an attempt to stiffle innovation as well. Why should I take the time to build something when (a) others can come along and use my data for free and take away my market share or (b) I can just wait a year and scrape the data off of somebody else and not do as much work. It seems about time Craigslist re-evaluates…

why isn't craigslist doing that then instead of suing someone who found a way to attract users and media attention?

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#258

Post by potatolicious »

unavoidable wrote: post #199
nostromo wrote: post #60

Commenters here make this sound like an open and shut case in favor of Craigslist. IANAL, so could someone explain why Google's index of material covered by copyright is ok and PadMapper's is not?

[Law student here, but I don't know the full details of the claim CL is making] The case doesn't actually seem open and shut at all. CL seems to have a "moral high ground" in that they provide the original service and the platform for users to post information, but the legal ground is more shaky. It is relatively settled in copyright law (which appears to be the main thrust of CL's argument) that effort alone does no…

Since Padmapper is going through a third party - did they actually agree to the TOU?

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#259

Post by sadga »

brador wrote: post #39
citricsquid wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone is the party we should feel bad for in this case it's 3Taps. They seemed to be flying under the radar until Padmapper started using them.

"Flying under the radar hoping we don't get caught and sued for something we know is wrong" should not be a part of any reasonable business plan.

It worked for AirBnB.
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