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Departing the New York Times

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Re: Departing the New York Times

#51

Post by camgunz »

kyrra wrote: post #26
PaulHoule wrote: post #25

I'd argue that it's worse news than it appears. Bari Weiss left for the same reason Krugman did (you can make more money for less hassle with a Substack) even though her politics were the opposite and she didn't have as good a gig as Krugman did. Since the NYT had a web site everybody there knows they live and die based on the usage stats, and the usage stats says that people would rather read Krugman, Klein, Brooks…

Bari Weiss is center left by the way. Prior to her New York times stint, she was at wsj editorial pages where she was to the left of basically everyone. If you read her actual political beliefs, she's more of a classical liberal.

This is her news outlet: https://www.thefp.com/. 99% of the articles are expositions of right wing talking points; and the same goes for her personal columns.

I'm not saying that's wrong or bad. I'm pointing out there's a group of people masquerading as "free thinkers" despite their overwhelmingly right wing views, and Weiss is in this group (Batya Ungar-Sargon is another).

Re: Departing the New York Times

#52

Post by FloatArtifact »

hackyhacky wrote: post #24
djoldman wrote: post #9

For a long time, many large US newspapers have had a fundamental and critical internal inconsistency: 1. They proclaim the intention to report on all the relevant news with as little subjective bias as reasonably possible. 2. They make money through advertisements and subscriptions, the amount of which is proportional to the magnitude of their readership. Maximizing point 2 above competes with netflix, books, movies,…

> They proclaim the intention to report on all the relevant news with as little subjective bias as reasonably possible. I don't think that's ever been the case. > Opinion and editorial pages are not relevant news with little subjective bias. Even if it were somehow possible to produce a piece of reporting totally devoid of subjectivity, it wouldn't be interesting and no one would care, because most people aren't subj…

> > They proclaim the intention to report on all the relevant news with as little subjective bias as reasonably possible. > > I don't think that's ever been the case. > > > Opinion and editorial pages are not relevant news with little subjective bias. > > Even if it were somehow possible to produce a piece of reporting totally devoid of subjectivity, it wouldn't be interesting and no one would care, because most people aren't subject matter experts in the area of whatever the piece is about. > > That's the value provided by expert editorialists, which Krugman was: they frame events in a meaningful way, be it historical, personal, based on experience in whatever field, or with other meaningful comparisons. Yes, such framing is necessarily subjective, but it adds value. Subjectivity doesn't imply corruption.

A bit from left field. So, framing your idea with AI. What can we expect when we look at biases in our selves?

Re: Departing the New York Times

#53

Post by PaulHoule »

camgunz wrote: post #51
kyrra wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bari Weiss is center left by the way. Prior to her New York times stint, she was at wsj editorial pages where she was to the left of basically everyone. If you read her actual political beliefs, she's more of a classical liberal.

This is her news outlet: https://www.thefp.com/ . 99% of the articles are expositions of right wing talking points; and the same goes for her personal columns. I'm not saying that's wrong or bad. I'm pointing out there's a group of people masquerading as "free thinkers" despite their overwhelmingly right wing views, and Weiss is in this group (Batya Ungar-Sargon is another).

There was this podcast

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-witch-trials-of-j-...

which has a pretty good analysis of "How did online trolls get so nasty?" that would pretty obviously apply to the anti-vax fringe that the FP panders to but never makes the connection, for instance.

Re: Departing the New York Times

#54

Post by hackyhacky »

FloatArtifact wrote: post #52
hackyhacky wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They proclaim the intention to report on all the relevant news with as little subjective bias as reasonably possible. I don't think that's ever been the case. > Opinion and editorial pages are not relevant news with little subjective bias. Even if it were somehow possible to produce a piece of reporting totally devoid of subjectivity, it wouldn't be interesting and no one would care, because most people aren't subj…

> > They proclaim the intention to report on all the relevant news with as little subjective bias as reasonably possible. > > I don't think that's ever been the case. > > > Opinion and editorial pages are not relevant news with little subjective bias. > > Even if it were somehow possible to produce a piece of reporting totally devoid of subjectivity, it wouldn't be interesting and no one would care, because most peop…

I do not converse with AI.

Re: Departing the New York Times

#55

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #46
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HN moderation team has said that machine generated submissions and posts are not welcome here, e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33950747 .

Does it make you feel better that the AI and I engaged in an iterative process to identfy what, precisely, in Krugman's long career was so irritating? The AI couldn't figure it out at first. The link you shared says bots are banned. I am not a bot. No one down voted me because they misunderstood I was a bot. The link also says single-purpose users are not in the HN spirit either. I recognize many people here use thro…

> "The link you shared says bots are banned."

The post says "...bots or generated responses..." so you are incorrect. If you have concerns about the specifics, the HN moderators can be contacted at the email address in the FAQ and guidelines page.

Re: Departing the New York Times

#56

Post by tim333 »

alvah wrote: post #36
PaulHoule wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only person in this Wikipedia article to say she leans left is herself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bari_Weiss I'll agree with the criticism of "anti-fascism" and similar trends, but she has way too much enthusiasm Peter Thiel, Joe Rogan and such. I think The Economist should be center right thanks to its consistent insistence on free trade (founded to oppose the Corn Laws in 1843) or rather it is what the cent…

I agree The Economist should be center right, however if you believe it to be anywhere right of center, that’s really just a sign of the center shifting far to the left IMO.

>just a sign of the center shifting far to the left IMO

When I was a kid the right wanted free trade and and the left wanted everything controlled by government. Now the right like Trump are big on tariffs and the great leader making things great. I think they are the ones who have moved more. Although I'm not sure this fits well on a one dimensional left right scale.

Re: Departing the New York Times

#58

Post by kyrra »

PaulHoule wrote: post #33
kyrra wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bari Weiss is center left by the way. Prior to her New York times stint, she was at wsj editorial pages where she was to the left of basically everyone. If you read her actual political beliefs, she's more of a classical liberal.

The only person in this Wikipedia article to say she leans left is herself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bari_Weiss I'll agree with the criticism of "anti-fascism" and similar trends, but she has way too much enthusiasm Peter Thiel, Joe Rogan and such. I think The Economist should be center right thanks to its consistent insistence on free trade (founded to oppose the Corn Laws in 1843) or rather it is what the cent…

Wikipedia tends to have a left-leaning bent to its articles. Using it as the source of truth on things like this isn't always a great gauge.

https://manhattan.institute/article/new-study-finds-politica...

Re: Departing the New York Times

#59

Post by alvah »

tim333 wrote: post #56
alvah wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree The Economist should be center right, however if you believe it to be anywhere right of center, that’s really just a sign of the center shifting far to the left IMO.

>just a sign of the center shifting far to the left IMO When I was a kid the right wanted free trade and and the left wanted everything controlled by government. Now the right like Trump are big on tariffs and the great leader making things great. I think they are the ones who have moved more. Although I'm not sure this fits well on a one dimensional left right scale.

The old left right scale doesn’t really describe modern politics very well, but I don’t think its hard to argue against the Democrats under Bill Clinton in the 1990s being much closer to the Republicans 20 years later than the current Democrats (i.e. the Overton window shifting far to the left). The same phenomenon can be observed in many Western countries, very recent reactionary shifts to the right notwithstanding.

Re: Departing the New York Times

#60

Post by hipadev23 »

anotherhue wrote: post #16
sho_hn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched "Dear Kelly" the other day, and while the movie isn't all that interesting, I couldn't help but feel like it was the absolute essence of a GenZ take on investigative journalism. I think that's what we got now.

I admire the investigations "People Make Games" do on their YT channel, their roblox one in particular is worth a look.

PMG’s take on Roblox is woefully misinformed and full of inaccuracies.
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