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OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
431–440 of 1001 posts
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#432The schadenfreude and irony of this is totally understandable.
But, I wonder - do companies like OpenAI, Google, and Anthropic use each others models for training? If not, is it because they don't want to or need to, or because they are afraid of breaking the ToC?
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#433[deleted]
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#434So... company that steals other people's work to train their models is complaining because they think someone stole their work to train their models.
Cry me a river.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#435> “It’s also extremely hard to rally a big talented research team to charge a new hill in the fog together,” he added. “This is the key to driving progress forward.” Well I think DeepSeek releasing it open source and on an MIT license will rally the big talent. The open sourcing of a new technology has always driven progress in the past. The last paragraph too is where OpenAi seems to be focusing their efforts.. > we…
> So they'll go for getting DeepSeek banned like TikTok was now that a precedent has been set ?
Can't really ban what can be downloaded for free and hosted by anyone. There are many providers hosting the ~700B parameter version that aren't CCP aligned.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#436All the top level comments are basking in the irony of it, which is fair enough. But I think this changes the Deepseek narrative a bit. If they just benefited from repurposing OpenAI data, that's different than having achieved an engineering breakthrough, which may suggest OpenAI's results were hard earned after all.
I really don't see a correlation here to be honest.
Eventually all future AIs will be produced with synthetic input, the amount of (quality) data we humans can produce is quite limited.
The fact that the input of one AI has been used in the training of another one seems irrelevant.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#437This reminds me of the railroads, where once railroads were invented, there was a huge investment boom of eveyrone trying to make money of the railroads, but the competition brought the costs down where the railroads weren’t the people who generally made the money and got the benefit, but the consumers and regular businesses did and competition caused many to fail. AI is probably similar where the Moore’s law and adv…
I think that's a very possible outcome. A lot of people investing in AI are thinking there's a google moment coming where one monopoly will reign supreme. Google has strong network effects around user data AND economies of scale. Right now, AI is 1-player with much weaker network effects. The user data moat goes away once the model trains itself effectively and the economies of scale advantage goes away with smart small models that can be efficiently hosted by mortals/hobbyists. The DeepSeek result points to both of those happening in the near future. Interesting times.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#438Earlier quoted context omitted.
The railroads drama ended when JP Morgan (the person, not yet the entity) brought all the railroad bosses together, said "you all answer to me because I represent your investors / shareholders", and forced a wave of consolidation and syndicates because competition was bad for business. Then all the farmers in the midwest went broke not because they couldn't get their goods to market, but because JP Morgan's consolida…
> Consolidation and monopoly over your competition is always the end goal. Surely that's only possible when you have a large barrier to entry? What's going to be that barrier in this case - cos it turns out not to be neither training costs/hardware or secret expertise.
> Surely that's only possible when you have a large barrier to entry?
As you grow bigger, you create barriers to entry where none existed before, whether intentionally or unintentionally.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#439Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The US government likely will favor a large strategic company like OpenAI instead of individual's copyrights Even if we assume this is true, Disney and Netflix are both currently worth more than OpenAI and both rely on the strict enforcement of US copyright law. I do not think it is so obvious which powers that be have the better lobbying efforts and, currently, it's looking like this question will mostly be adjudic…
I don't think OpenAI stole from Disney or Netflix. Rather OpenAI stole from individual artists and YouTube and other social media who users do not really have any lobbying power. So I think OpenAI, Disney and Netflix win together. Big companies tend to win.
> Rather OpenAI stole from individual artists and YouTube and other social media
"stole"?
They consumed publicly available material on the Internet
I am no fan of these billionaire capitalists and their henchpersons but condem them for their multitude of sins.
Consuming publicly available Internet resources is not one of them. IMO
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#440OpenAI coping so hard