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Ask HN: Would you still choose Ruby on Rails for a startup in 2025?

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Re: Ask HN: Would you still choose Ruby on Rails for a startup in 2025?

#141

Post by jondot »

monadoid wrote: post #51
jph wrote: post #44

Yes Rails 8 is great. However, pick what the team knows best. For example at a startup doing AI/ML where everyone already knows Python and we're doing a lot with Pandas and Jupyter, we're choosing to build our website CMS by using Django & HTMX. BTW shoutout to the Loco team, for my favorite new web framework. If you're already working with Rust in general, and your business requires extreme speed and extreme reliabi…

Loco is awesome! Hoping that the openAPI generation comes soon - then I can generate zod schemas from the openAPI doc! It would be really cool to use something like hygen/plop or maybe tera (idk) to automatically generate svelte or react CRUD pages, similar to what loco is already doing for htmx.

Loco author here.

Thanks for the shoutouts!

We definitely try our best to match the Rails experience. Being that the experience is not something you can just have as a side effect.

We build stuff into Loco that Rails has, try it out, then decide if it's "Railsy" enough in the experience. If it's not, we delete it and try again.

I'm a Rails superfan personally, however as life turned out to me, I like Rust much more than I like Ruby. So the decision was to go "loco" and implement Rails for Rust.

We're looking for more feedback and people to try out Loco, please feel free to do so :-)

Re: Ask HN: Would you still choose Ruby on Rails for a startup in 2025?

#142

Post by jondot »

If you're like me and moved off from Ruby to Rust as your go-to-everything, try Loco which tries to be a faithful Rails on Rust (loco.rs). It has the magical scaffold, the smooth experience, and the features you'd expect from Rails including authentication built in (like Devise).

Disclaimer: I'm one of the authors of Loco.

Re: Ask HN: Would you still choose Ruby on Rails for a startup in 2025?

#144

Post by citrus1330 »

schappim wrote: post #48
tra3 wrote: post #11

Yes, I would. In fact, I'd use any boring technology [0]. Anything that's been around and battle tested. If I was at a startup trying to solve a business problem, the last thing I'd want to do is bruise my knuckles fighting with my tools. Rails provides an opinionated way to structure your codebase as well as many existing modules that just work. It's not exclusive in this space, but it's a safe bet. You can get any…

Rails (and its ecosystem) is anything but boring with Turbo/Hotwire, StimulusJS, a shift away from queues using Redis to the database w/ Solid Queue, a reexamination of how SQLite can be used as a prod database (when tuned), and a new rich text editor on the way… Some of these are eyebrow raising and certainly not boring!

He meant that it's been around for a while and is relatively stable. Not that it's literally boring.

Re: Ask HN: Would you still choose Ruby on Rails for a startup in 2025?

#145

Post by kowfm »

anonfordays wrote: post #127
kowfm wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't mean I'm not right. I mean that they give off Fascist vibes, and that it's a problem. Adoration for and support of fascist people and regimes are implicit support of fascism. Not explicit. Go read their blogs, I'm sure you'll find lots of examples.

>It doesn't mean I'm not right. It doesn't mean you're not wrong. Is this a personal vendetta? >I mean that they give off Fascist vibes, and that it's a problem. Adoration for and support of fascist people and regimes are implicit support of fascism. Where? Link examples where they supported Fascism. "Vibes" are meaningless, I need specific examples of these claims, else they can be tossed outright. >Go read their bl…

I'm not interested in prosecuting that David gives off fascist vibes. I don't have to provide proof. Kinda lazy that you're all not out there looking for the proof yourself.

To reorient the discussion around what the original poster talked about, that he gives off Elon Musk Vibes. And that it's a problem. Well it IS a problem. A problem openly, and vigorously discussed in the Ruby community.

Many people have left the Ruby community because of his behavior, and many more have chosen never to come into the community because of it. Because of the perceived strong association between him and the Ruby and Rails community at large.

Anyways, as per my original point, that despite the Fascist vibes from that guy, Ruby and Rails are still really great choices.

Re: Ask HN: Would you still choose Ruby on Rails for a startup in 2025?

#146

Post by jrochkind1 »

muzani wrote: post #28
tra3 wrote: post #11

Yes, I would. In fact, I'd use any boring technology [0]. Anything that's been around and battle tested. If I was at a startup trying to solve a business problem, the last thing I'd want to do is bruise my knuckles fighting with my tools. Rails provides an opinionated way to structure your codebase as well as many existing modules that just work. It's not exclusive in this space, but it's a safe bet. You can get any…

Is it boring technology? I'm actually reluctant to pick up Rails because it had always been sold by the Basecamp cult and Jason Fried gives off Musk vibes. Many opinionated frameworks are also less reliable because of the layers of abstraction, so I'd also associate opinionated framework = sexy and temporary. I've never actually used Rails in production, just did some tutorial, so I'm probably wrong about this.

I use and love using rails, but the centrality of influence of the musk-vibes-camp is for me too the biggest downside. Yes in response to a sibling comment, the RailsWorld keynote was super weird culty vibe, agreed. But hey everything's got ups and downs. Rails is great for me to work in. Hopefully it will remain that way. There are other Rails maintainers who are not basecamp-related, some who say that dhh and basecamp's power over Rails is not as great as people think and it really is distributed maintainership and control, hopefully that is true enough and will remain so.

i know what you mean about abstraction and flexibilty, but I think Rails mostly avoids that and is actually quite flexible. But I don't use the new hotwire JS stuff, that is one area where I share your concern. It's easy to use Rails without it, with the JS of your choice.

Re: Ask HN: Would you still choose Ruby on Rails for a startup in 2025?

#147

Post by jrochkind1 »

mostertoaster wrote: post #121

I have a love hate relationship with rails. I think rails is quite powerful and great for prototyping. But I’ve noticed lots of rails developers optimize so heavily for making things DRY, they make the most hard to debug monstrosities full of meta programming all so they could write a thing one one line of code instead of 3. Still for starting out it’s pretty awesome. If your company grows enough that you have legacy…

> DRY, they make the most hard to debug monstrosities full of meta programming all so they could write a thing one one line of code instead of 3.

I feel like this is one of the mistakes that many developers make, and it's achieving a kind of wisdom to eventually realize it -- that optimizing for DRY above all else creates a mess.

I've definitely seen this done in many languages, but I've been mostly using ruby so much these days that I can't actually compare. Do any people who do have deep experience on multiple platforms (these people are few and far between) find this problem is worse in ruby than other places? Maybe it's that ruby gives you tools such that when you do optimize for DRY abstraction above all else you create a bigger mess, compared to other platforms?

Re: Ask HN: Would you still choose Ruby on Rails for a startup in 2025?

#148

Post by cplanas »

mostertoaster wrote: post #121

I have a love hate relationship with rails. I think rails is quite powerful and great for prototyping. But I’ve noticed lots of rails developers optimize so heavily for making things DRY, they make the most hard to debug monstrosities full of meta programming all so they could write a thing one one line of code instead of 3. Still for starting out it’s pretty awesome. If your company grows enough that you have legacy…

> I’ve noticed lots of rails developers optimize so heavily for making things DRY, they make the most hard to debug monstrosities full of meta programming all so they could write a thing one one line of code instead of 3.

I think that was definitely the case some years ago, but the Ruby community has matured since then. Meta programming is a bit looked down upon, these days.

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