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Young Gorillas Observed Dismantling Poacher Snares

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Re: Young Gorillas Observed Dismantling Poacher Snares

#31

Post by dr42 »

rimantas wrote: post #28
dmitriy_ko wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. We and gorillas share much more behavior than most realize. Everything from desire for friendship and love to desire for social status and achievement work pretty much EXACTLY the same. A book which made me realize this is "Sex and War: How Biology Explains Warfare and Terrorism and Offers a Path to a Safer World". Title seems a bit unrelated to this topic, but this book basically shows that pretty much all…

> Everything from desire for friendship and love to desire > for social status and achievement work pretty much > EXACTLY the same And you know this how? Some gorilla told you?

By behavioral observation

Re: Young Gorillas Observed Dismantling Poacher Snares

#32

Post by 3minus1 »

dmitriy_ko wrote: post #8
patdennis wrote: post #3

In what can only be described as an impassioned effort to save their own kind from the hand of poachers There are ways to describe it that don't attribute human motivations to gorillas. I don't really believe this is a reputable source. This is a bit more reliable: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/07/120719-young...

Desire to save members of your own kind is pretty universal among "social animals". Nothing particularly human about it.

Can you back up that claim? It sounds like an argument based on group selection theory. Animals may have a desire to help out those that are genetically related to them. But to say they want to save any and all members of their own kind violates the thesis of Darwin's Selfish Gene.

Re: Young Gorillas Observed Dismantling Poacher Snares

#33

Post by gph »

maxerickson wrote: post #29
gph wrote: post #14

I can't help but read this with a pinch of salt. Yes, it's fascinating that these gorillas have learned this new behavior and are passing it down. And I think almost everyone wants to see endangered species protected. Yet I can't help but feel there is something quite pretentious about all this. We sit here cheering on the destruction of these traps, when in all likely-hood there are people who depend on them for sus…

Normally when I think of poachers, I think of the local problem of people taking game outside the legal season. Often for trophies, often for meat. I don't get much further than thinking that they are illegally killing wild animals.

Fair enough, but I'd hazard a guess that for the majority of people, especially the more urban ones, the only time they even hear about poachers is either in movies (Ace Ventura Pet Detective anyone?) or in articles about elephants/rhinos getting shot for Chinese medicine. You gotta admit the technical definition probably does not completely line up with what Joe Q Public imagines when he hears that word. Somebody shooting a deer out of season is probably not what most people would think of when hearing that word.

Re: Young Gorillas Observed Dismantling Poacher Snares

#34

Post by krschultz »

rimantas wrote: post #28
dmitriy_ko wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. We and gorillas share much more behavior than most realize. Everything from desire for friendship and love to desire for social status and achievement work pretty much EXACTLY the same. A book which made me realize this is "Sex and War: How Biology Explains Warfare and Terrorism and Offers a Path to a Safer World". Title seems a bit unrelated to this topic, but this book basically shows that pretty much all…

> Everything from desire for friendship and love to desire > for social status and achievement work pretty much > EXACTLY the same And you know this how? Some gorilla told you?

Maybe if you read the book he mentioned you would find out the answer to your question.

Re: Young Gorillas Observed Dismantling Poacher Snares

#36

Post by gph »

3minus1 wrote: post #32
dmitriy_ko wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Desire to save members of your own kind is pretty universal among "social animals". Nothing particularly human about it.

Can you back up that claim? It sounds like an argument based on group selection theory. Animals may have a desire to help out those that are genetically related to them. But to say they want to save any and all members of their own kind violates the thesis of Darwin's Selfish Gene.

>Darwin's Selfish Gene

I think you mean Dawkins. Easy to mix those two names up :)

Re: Young Gorillas Observed Dismantling Poacher Snares

#37

Post by TeMPOraL »

yread wrote: post #26
diminish wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could some animals have some richer emotions which we don't have? For example, some animals with Tetrachromacy can have a reacher color space than us. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromacy

Some animals can also see polarised light http://larouchepac.com/node/17209 Mantis shrimp can see the four linear and two circular polarization so the complete polarization picture. Oh and they have 12 color components. Oh and trinocular vision

> Some animals can also see polarised light (...)

Humans also possess this ability, althought it's limited and weak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidingers_brush

Re: Young Gorillas Observed Dismantling Poacher Snares

#38

Post by Jun8 »

astrodust wrote: post #19
diminish wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could some animals have some richer emotions which we don't have? For example, some animals with Tetrachromacy can have a reacher color space than us. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromacy

Many birds can see ultraviolet, it's fairly common since it seems to allow them to differentiate flowers the same way many insects do. Some flowers look completely different in the UV spectrum ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-473897/A-bees... ). This is why it's important that many types of pet birds have some natural daylight. As for emotions, that's a harder thing to prove. Dolphins are intelligent…

Many animals, e.g. tropical fish, have a four-dimensional color perception, compared to our three-dimensional one; thus making them easily distinguish colors that appear identical to us.

Re: Young Gorillas Observed Dismantling Poacher Snares

#39

Post by scotty79 »

netcan wrote: post #22
eshvk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't help but read this with a pinch of salt. Yes, it's fascinating that these gorillas have learned this new behavior and are passing it down. And I think almost everyone wants to see endangered species protected. Yet I can't help but feel there is something quite pretentious about all this. We sit here cheering on the destruction of these traps, when in all likely-hood there are people who depend on them for s…

Thats not a very generous reading of the OP. He is reacting to the implied (though I didn't think it was very strong) characterization of local hunters as poachers. They're hunting to eat and using (presumably) the same type of traps that they're used for generations. That fact makes gph feel some sympathy or solidarity with them and I think a lot of people agree. I'm absolutely not a relativist. That said this is th…

People who eat animals they illegally killed are not poachers?
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