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Undiagnosed Cognitive Decline Eats into Seniors' Retirement Savings

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Re: Undiagnosed Cognitive Decline Eats into Seniors' Retirement Savings

#21

Post by kome »

pjc50 wrote: post #12
KK7NIL wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public pension schemes always end up being turned into Ponzi schemes for short term political gain, especially as birthrates keep dropping. US social security and Medicare are a great example of this but you'll find similar examples throughout the western world. In contrast private retirement plans put the individual in charge of their own retirement (why should the government be telling you when to retire?) and does…

> financial burden on unborn generations. The money always has to come from the labour of the future somehow. So you get the same burden laundered through the private sector, such as young people having to pay extortionate rents to retired landlords.

great point.

Re: Undiagnosed Cognitive Decline Eats into Seniors' Retirement Savings

#22

Post by kome »

dsheets wrote: post #20
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> financial burden on unborn generations. The money always has to come from the labour of the future somehow. So you get the same burden laundered through the private sector, such as young people having to pay extortionate rents to retired landlords.

Why must the money come from future labor? Money can be saved and invested. Let them eat their capital and not their young.

investment is literally future labor expectations. and a risk.

in case of crisis the gov routinely starts bailouts and save the financial markets with interest rate operations or open market operations. those operations have deep re-distributive implications. don't think they are free.

Re: Undiagnosed Cognitive Decline Eats into Seniors' Retirement Savings

#23

Post by YWall39 »

vkou wrote: post #19
YWall39 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European pensions are predominantly unfunded, and promises typically amount to 3.5 times GDP. The prevailing view among those who have looked at this is that nobody under the age of 40 will get anything close to what is promised. The only exception is Netherlands, and maybe Sweden. Leaving private pensions the only option.

Basic demographic analysis will point out that in a world with a declining and aging population, private investments are probably not going to be doing so hot, either. Wealth creation requires work. Retirees don't work, but still require a portion of the wealth that workers create to live. It doesn't matter if it's a government pension or a 401K investment, a declining worker population will mean that you'll have the…

I am more optimistic. I always suggest automatically dropping x% of ones income into an index fund. At the least it will hedge against the very real chance governments will not be able to deliver on their promises.

Re: Undiagnosed Cognitive Decline Eats into Seniors' Retirement Savings

#24

Post by KK7NIL »

kome wrote: post #18
KK7NIL wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public pension schemes always end up being turned into Ponzi schemes for short term political gain, especially as birthrates keep dropping. US social security and Medicare are a great example of this but you'll find similar examples throughout the western world. In contrast private retirement plans put the individual in charge of their own retirement (why should the government be telling you when to retire?) and does…

this comment can be summarized like this: https://i.redd.it/jbab7jrhvt211.gif after three major financial crises in the past 20 years, it’s hard to call private finance “safe” from ponzi-like risks. more than a quarter of Americans have no retirement savings at all, and the 401(k) balance for near-retirees often falls well below $100,000. but it's the logic of the argument that is faulty: declining birthrates also hu…

> declining birthrates also hurt private markets, which rely on a growing workforce just as public pensions do.

Right, it's well known that the US' demographics are the foundation for its strong economy, not advancements in productivity and technology. /s

> if there is no growth also the financial markets won't grow.

Financial markets don't need to grow for your investments to pay off. Investing into growth stocks is very popular now a days but value stocks (which might not grow at all but have profitable operations) and fixed income are perfectly good options too.

> if we dismiss public pensions as a ponzi scheme, then by the same logic, private plans—completely at the mercy of market swings

Some of them can be, the difference is that public pensions are a Ponzi scheme I'm legally forced to contribute to and have little say in. Not so for private plans.

Re: Undiagnosed Cognitive Decline Eats into Seniors' Retirement Savings

#25

Post by vkou »

YWall39 wrote: post #23
vkou wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic demographic analysis will point out that in a world with a declining and aging population, private investments are probably not going to be doing so hot, either. Wealth creation requires work. Retirees don't work, but still require a portion of the wealth that workers create to live. It doesn't matter if it's a government pension or a 401K investment, a declining worker population will mean that you'll have the…

I am more optimistic. I always suggest automatically dropping x% of ones income into an index fund. At the least it will hedge against the very real chance governments will not be able to deliver on their promises.

> index fund

What wealth will your index fund produce when nobody is working, and nobody has the money to buy stuff?

However you answer that question, I'll retort with - 'And exactly what will stop the government from taxing that wealth, to keep pensions working?'

> At the least it will hedge against the very real chance governments will not be able to deliver on their promises.

That's a fair point, there's the very real possibility that governments will refuse to take the steps necessary to deliver on those promises.

A good way to ensure that they won't shirk from that is continuing to elect the kind of government that will. Don't vote for people who seek to destroy public systems.

Re: Undiagnosed Cognitive Decline Eats into Seniors' Retirement Savings

#26

Post by dachris »

YWall39 wrote: post #15
kome wrote: post #7

i strongly oppose the American approach to pensions, which is regrettably spreading worldwide. relying on private savings to finance retirement is highly risky, and this is the crux of the article in question. pension systems should be administered through public programs, not turned into moralistic contests in which individuals are penalized if their investments fail for any reason (and it's only their fault... whil…

European pensions are predominantly unfunded, and promises typically amount to 3.5 times GDP. The prevailing view among those who have looked at this is that nobody under the age of 40 will get anything close to what is promised. The only exception is Netherlands, and maybe Sweden. Leaving private pensions the only option.

The real exception is Norway with its https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Nor...

Re: Undiagnosed Cognitive Decline Eats into Seniors' Retirement Savings

#28

Post by KK7NIL »

pjc50 wrote: post #12
KK7NIL wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public pension schemes always end up being turned into Ponzi schemes for short term political gain, especially as birthrates keep dropping. US social security and Medicare are a great example of this but you'll find similar examples throughout the western world. In contrast private retirement plans put the individual in charge of their own retirement (why should the government be telling you when to retire?) and does…

> financial burden on unborn generations. The money always has to come from the labour of the future somehow. So you get the same burden laundered through the private sector, such as young people having to pay extortionate rents to retired landlords.

This is simply not true, my investments make money from profitable business operating today, not "labor of the future".

Maybe you should stop reading Marxist economists.

Re: Undiagnosed Cognitive Decline Eats into Seniors' Retirement Savings

#29

Post by YWall39 »

dachris wrote: post #26
YWall39 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European pensions are predominantly unfunded, and promises typically amount to 3.5 times GDP. The prevailing view among those who have looked at this is that nobody under the age of 40 will get anything close to what is promised. The only exception is Netherlands, and maybe Sweden. Leaving private pensions the only option.

The real exception is Norway with its https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Nor...

Yes, their government should be able to honor their promises.

Re: Undiagnosed Cognitive Decline Eats into Seniors' Retirement Savings

#30

Post by [deleted] »

dsheets wrote: post #20
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> financial burden on unborn generations. The money always has to come from the labour of the future somehow. So you get the same burden laundered through the private sector, such as young people having to pay extortionate rents to retired landlords.

Why must the money come from future labor? Money can be saved and invested. Let them eat their capital and not their young.

[deleted]
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