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Open-R1: an open reproduction of DeepSeek-R1

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Re: Open-R1: an open reproduction of DeepSeek-R1

#11
post #6

What are some other domains outside of Math and Coding that would be suitable for RL with automated verification?

Jurisprudence, I hope! A huge heap of detailed cases, formal codes, decisions made and explained in detail, commented, overturned, etc. Especially civil cases.

Also, probably, medicine, especially diagnostic. Large amounts of well-documented cases, a fair amount of repeatability, apparently non-random mechanisms behind, so statistical models should actually detect useful correlations. Can use more formalized tokens from lab tests, etc.

Re: Open-R1: an open reproduction of DeepSeek-R1

#13

Exciting to see this being reproduced, loving the hyper-fast movement in open source! This is exactly why it is not “US vs China”, the battle is between heavily-capitalized Silicon Valley companies versus open source. Every believer in this tech owes DeepSeek some gratitude, but even they stand on shoulders of giants in the form of everyone else who pushed the frontier forward and chose to publish, rather than exploi…

China is merely the largest of a wide array of entities that may not necessarily like the status quo of Silicon Valley being our tech overlords. There are plenty of places with bright people. Easy to say because a lot of them immigrate to California. But of course the places they come from (China, Europe, India, Russia etc.) have ambitions as well. You'll find natives of each of those in the likes of OpenAI, Google, Microsoft, etc. And quite often at executive levels even.

Silicon Valley has mo moat other than money. It kind of runs on openness and freedom of movement of people. Companies constantly poach people from each other. And there's a constant movement of people (and knowledge) in and out of the area. Money is what attracts these people and keeps them there for a while. But of course that status quo was upset a little bit with VCs turning into penny pinching misers lately and lockdowns proving (to them) that it was cheaper to host your tech teams remotely. Which means knowledge is now more distributed than it used to be.

So, it's not surprising that people outside of Silicon Valley are not waiting patiently for OpenAI to do whatever it is they are doing in between having moral existential crises, trying to oust their CEO, pontificating about AGIs, etc. They are taking things into their own hands. The brute force / VC funding driven approach that OpenAI has used yielded massive results in the last few years. But ever since Meta opensourced their models, OSS models and optimizations have been catching up.

On a hardware resource usage basis, these models started to outperform their bigger peers last year and now the game is up for the training process as well. Meaning they get better results for the same money. A major hurdle here was the model training process. Which the Chinese seem to have proven can be massively optimized as well. Cutting cost by a few orders of magnitude is a big deal. And at the same time doing the same thing at larger scale (aka. throwing more money at the problem) seems to have diminishing returns.

Until that changes, that means the playing field has somewhat leveled now. That's a good thing.

Re: Open-R1: an open reproduction of DeepSeek-R1

#18
post #9

Exciting to see this being reproduced, loving the hyper-fast movement in open source! This is exactly why it is not “US vs China”, the battle is between heavily-capitalized Silicon Valley companies versus open source. Every believer in this tech owes DeepSeek some gratitude, but even they stand on shoulders of giants in the form of everyone else who pushed the frontier forward and chose to publish, rather than exploi…

Oh yes, I am firmly on Team China here because US companies got too greedy. Meta is an exception here though and they also propelled AI development massively. DeepSeek is awesome. Any AI task yet implemented in our business can be run from my local PC with just the smaller models. And my PC is fairly crappy to begin with. OpenAI looks quite silly with their "we have to close everything".

Can you elaborate which models you are using? I‘m running an R1 distilled Qwen coder with 32B Q4, and while it’s giving useful answers, it‘s quite slow on my M1 Max. Slow enough that I keep reaching for cloud models.

Re: Open-R1: an open reproduction of DeepSeek-R1

#19

Exciting to see this being reproduced, loving the hyper-fast movement in open source! This is exactly why it is not “US vs China”, the battle is between heavily-capitalized Silicon Valley companies versus open source. Every believer in this tech owes DeepSeek some gratitude, but even they stand on shoulders of giants in the form of everyone else who pushed the frontier forward and chose to publish, rather than exploi…

I like that it’s open source, but ultimately it is china so we can’t trust it.

It’s trivial to implement bias in models (hence the no-no filters in chatgpt) so if they’re smart they’ll do what they do with tiktok and make the answers different for their rivals.

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