Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

youtubetranscriptoptimizer.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 500 posts

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#411

Post by WhitneyLand »

paulddraper wrote: post #386
WhitneyLand wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DCT is not an algorithm at all, it’s a mathematical transform. It doesn’t have a compression ratio.

> DCT compression, also known as block compression, compresses data in sets of discrete DCT blocks.[3] DCT blocks sizes including 8x8 pixels for the standard DCT, and varied integer DCT sizes between 4x4 and 32x32 pixels.[1][4] The DCT has a strong energy compaction property,[5][6] capable of achieving high quality at high data compression ratios.[7][8] However, blocky compression artifacts can appear when heavy DCT…

Exactly, it’s not an algorithm, it’s one mechanism used in many (most?) compression algorithms.

Therefore, it has no compression ratio, and it doesn’t make sense to compare it to other algorithms.

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#412

Post by [deleted] »

chrisco255 wrote: post #407
Vegenoid wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why do we have powerful CPUs instead of a bunch of specialized hardware? It's because the value of a CPU is in its versatility and ubiquity. If a CPU can do a thing good enough, then most programs/computers will do that thing on a CPU instead of having the increased complexity and cost of a GPU, even if a GPU would do it better.

We have both? Modern computing devices like smart phones use SoCs with integrated GPUs. GPUs aren't really specialized hardware, either, they are general purpose hardware useful in many scenarios (built for graphics originally but clearly useful in other domains including AI).

[deleted]

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#413

Post by floatrock »

vFunct wrote: post #268
aurareturn wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t your point about video compression tech support Nvidia’s bull case? Better video compression led to an explosion in video consumption on the Internet, leading to much more revenue for companies like Comcast, Google, T-Mobile, Verizon, etc. More efficient LLMs lead to much more AI usage. Nvidia, TSMC, etc will benefit.

I agree that advancements like DeepSeek, like transformer models before it, is just going to end up increasing demand. It’s very shortsighted to think we’re going to need fewer chips because the algorithms got better. The system became more efficient, which causes induced demand.

obligatory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#414

Post by qingcharles »

ransom1538 wrote: post #391
dplgk wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is OpenAI's first-mover moat? I switched to Claude with absolutely no friction or moat-jumping.

I moved 100% over to deepseek. No switch cost. Zero.

These things aren't the same, though... yet.

ChatGPT is somewhat less censored (certainly on topics painful to the CCP), and GPT is multi-modal, which is a big selling point.

Depends on your use-case, of course.

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#415

Post by eigenvalue »

typeofhuman wrote: post #170

I'm rooting for DeepSeek (or any competitor) against OpenAI because I don't like Sam Altman. I'm confident in admitting it.

I really don't think he's a bad guy. He helped accelerate timelines and backed this tech when it was still a dream. Maybe he's not the brains behind it but he's been the brawn, and I think people should try to be more charitable and gracious about him rather than constantly vilify him.

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#416

Post by diamond559 »

vFunct wrote: post #268
aurareturn wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t your point about video compression tech support Nvidia’s bull case? Better video compression led to an explosion in video consumption on the Internet, leading to much more revenue for companies like Comcast, Google, T-Mobile, Verizon, etc. More efficient LLMs lead to much more AI usage. Nvidia, TSMC, etc will benefit.

I agree that advancements like DeepSeek, like transformer models before it, is just going to end up increasing demand. It’s very shortsighted to think we’re going to need fewer chips because the algorithms got better. The system became more efficient, which causes induced demand.

More demand for what, chatbots? ai slop? buggy code?

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#417

Post by qingcharles »

a_wild_dandan wrote: post #241
colinnordin wrote: post #151

Great article. > Now, you still want to train the best model you can by cleverly leveraging as much compute as you can and as many trillion tokens of high quality training data as possible, but that's just the beginning of the story in this new world; now, you could easily use incredibly huge amounts of compute just to do inference from these models at a very high level of confidence or when trying to solve extremely…

Running a 680-billion parameter frontier model on a few Macs (at 13 tok/s!) is nuts. That'a two years after ChatGPT was released. That rate of progress just blows my mind.

And those are M2 Ultras. M4 Ultra is about to drop in the next few weeks/months, and I'm guessing it might have higher RAM configs, so you can probably run the same 680b on two of those beasts.

The higher performing chips, with one less interconnect, is going to give you significantly higher t/s.

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#418

Post by qingcharles »

arresin wrote: post #184
colinnordin wrote: post #151

Great article. > Now, you still want to train the best model you can by cleverly leveraging as much compute as you can and as many trillion tokens of high quality training data as possible, but that's just the beginning of the story in this new world; now, you could easily use incredibly huge amounts of compute just to do inference from these models at a very high level of confidence or when trying to solve extremely…

Link has all the params but running at 4 bit quant.

4-bit quant is generally kinda low, right?

I wonder how badly this quant affects the output on DeepSeek?

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#419

Post by ReptileMan »

aurareturn wrote: post #384
ReptileMan wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>DeepSeek is bullish for Nvidia. DeepSeek is bullish for the semiconductor industry as a whole. Whether it is for Nvidia remains to be seen. Intel was in Nvidia position in 2007 and they didn't want to trade margins for volumes in the phone market. And there they are today.

Why wouldn't it be for Nvidia? Explain more.

Well so far the paradigm is for powerful silicone that only Nvidia could deliver - so they could charge high margins.

Theoretically they could be on top if the paradigm changes to big volume slower and lower margin one. But there may be another winner.

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#420

Post by natecham »

Vegenoid wrote: post #400
aurareturn wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why would DeepSeek decrease FOMO? It should increase it if anything.

Because DeepSeek demonstrates that loads of compute isn't necessary for high-performing models, and so we won't need as much and as powerful of hardware as was previously thought, which is what Nivida's valuation is based on?

That's assuming there isn't demand for more powerful models, there's still plenty of room for improvement from the current generation. We didn't stop at GPT-3 level models when that was achieved.
Post reply on HN