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Openhaystack: Build 'AirTags' – track Bluetooth devices via Apple's network

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Re: Openhaystack: Build 'AirTags' – track Bluetooth devices via Apple's network

#51

I wish it had a way to integrate with the Find My app instead of having to go through their own (wonky) process to retrieve locations. The chinese clones can do it (even with their own branding), so it must be possible somehow.

The Chinese clones use the Apple FindMy program, so they are official tags which can be displayed in the app. The OpenHaystack is a hack which uses different keys, and can't be shown on the app for cryptographic reasons

Re: Openhaystack: Build 'AirTags' – track Bluetooth devices via Apple's network

#52
post #28

This is a technically interesting project, but is there any situation at all where it's worth using? It seems like it just allows you to build airtag-like devices that sorta work on the Find-My network with some rough edges, but I can buy proper AirTag clones in various form factors for a couple bucks - far cheaper than I could ever make a custom bluetooth device using this project. Am I missing a use-case?

It allows you to locate a fleet of object without having to rely on wifi / GPS etc

Re: Openhaystack: Build 'AirTags' – track Bluetooth devices via Apple's network

#53

Hmmm, but can you use it to set up an actual AirTag without having another apple device like iPhone or Mac?

I think you can (haven't tried), check this repo https://github.com/malmeloo/FindMy.py/blob/main/examples/rea...

Re: Openhaystack: Build 'AirTags' – track Bluetooth devices via Apple's network

#54
post #5
post #2

Impressive. Would Apple be able to simply block non-Apple usage of Find My network usage simply by refusing to relay non-Apple BLE ID?

No, the BLE identities of these tags are currently practically indistinguishable from original tags, and could be made completely identical if necessary. In fact, changing the device's MAC address is part of the specification. What they could block, is the method used by these projects to fetch encrypted location reports. However, the original OpenHaystack project (this one) needs to run on macOS and lets the system…

There's also projects that don't need access to macOS (you still need an account) https://github.com/malmeloo/FindMy.py

EDIT: just realized I'm replying to the author of the project lol

Re: Openhaystack: Build 'AirTags' – track Bluetooth devices via Apple's network

#55

Haven’t done the research but I wonder if you can use this to piggyback with tiny arbitrary data data payloads.

I saw someone use this to track his mail state. They have a contact sensor inside their mailbox that rotates the broadcasted key based on the trigger count. If the key changed, aka a new different device is visible, you know mail has been dropped in, very clever !

I wish we had more / more easily accessible networks that let you do this.

Something that would let you send extremely tiny (Amazon has a network like this called Sidewalk, using Alexa devices as gateways, but I don't think it's very open to third-party experimentation, and it's definitely not an interoperable standard on the gateway side.

Re: Openhaystack: Build 'AirTags' – track Bluetooth devices via Apple's network

#56
I wish there was a good option for non Apple users. From what I've heard Google made their version pretty bad, as expected. They rate limit how often you can search for your own tags, they won't show the location until a tag has been seen by multiple phones, there's poor coverage. One test I saw showed that Samsung's network was better, which makes no sense since Samsung phones should be a subset of all Android phones in Google's network, but that's Google products for you. Sounds good in theory but poorly executed, even years after Apple showed how to do it.

https://security.googleblog.com/2024/04/find-my-device-netwo...

https://9to5google.com/2024/08/01/find-my-device-stress-test...

https://9to5google.com/2024/08/03/google-android-find-my-dev...

https://www.androidcentral.com/accessories/testing-new-googl...

Re: Openhaystack: Build 'AirTags' – track Bluetooth devices via Apple's network

#57

I wish there was a good option for non Apple users. From what I've heard Google made their version pretty bad, as expected. They rate limit how often you can search for your own tags, they won't show the location until a tag has been seen by multiple phones, there's poor coverage. One test I saw showed that Samsung's network was better, which makes no sense since Samsung phones should be a subset of all Android phone…

I dunno, a less than perfectly all-seeing omnipresent tracking network actually is a little comforting

Re: Openhaystack: Build 'AirTags' – track Bluetooth devices via Apple's network

#59

I wish there was a good option for non Apple users. From what I've heard Google made their version pretty bad, as expected. They rate limit how often you can search for your own tags, they won't show the location until a tag has been seen by multiple phones, there's poor coverage. One test I saw showed that Samsung's network was better, which makes no sense since Samsung phones should be a subset of all Android phone…

I dunno, a less than perfectly all-seeing omnipresent tracking network actually is a little comforting

It's not very useful for tracking your things though, which arguably is why you would use it. I wouldn't trust Google's network to find a stolen bike or lost luggage for instance, but air tags are used for that all the time[0]. Finding my lost keys at home is a perfectly valid use case for tags, but you don't need a network for that, just some Bluetooth and maybe UWB.

[0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycollins/2024/12/17/lost-lu...

https://help.vanmoof.com/hc/en-us/articles/16053155393181-Ho...

Re: Openhaystack: Build 'AirTags' – track Bluetooth devices via Apple's network

#60

I wish there was a good option for non Apple users. From what I've heard Google made their version pretty bad, as expected. They rate limit how often you can search for your own tags, they won't show the location until a tag has been seen by multiple phones, there's poor coverage. One test I saw showed that Samsung's network was better, which makes no sense since Samsung phones should be a subset of all Android phone…

There is a setting, where you can disable that it needs to be seen by multiple phones.
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