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The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

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Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. You just need to see a slight deceleration in projected revenue growth (which has been running 120%+ YoY recently) and some downward pressure on gross margins, and maybe even just some market share loss, and the stock could easily fall 25% from that.

AMD P/E ratio is 109, NVDA is 56. Which stock is overvalued?

If it were all so simple, they wouldn’t pay hedge fund analysts so much money…

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#42
post #34

Great article but it seems to have a fatal flaw. As pointed out in the article, Nvidia has several advantages including: - Better Linux drivers than AMD - CUDA - pytorch is optimized for Nvidia - High-speed interconnect Each of the advantages is under attack: - George Hotz is making better drivers for AMD - MLX, Triton, JAX: Higher level abstractions that compile down to CUDA - Cerbras and Groq solve the interconnect…

>So how is this possible? Well, the main reasons have to do with software— better drivers that "just work" on Linux and which are highly battle-tested and reliable (unlike AMD, which is notorious for the low quality and instability of their Linux drivers) This does not match my experience from the past ~6 years of using AMD graphics on Linux. Maybe things are different with AI/Compute, I've never messed with that, bu…

They are.

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#43

Great article but it seems to have a fatal flaw. As pointed out in the article, Nvidia has several advantages including: - Better Linux drivers than AMD - CUDA - pytorch is optimized for Nvidia - High-speed interconnect Each of the advantages is under attack: - George Hotz is making better drivers for AMD - MLX, Triton, JAX: Higher level abstractions that compile down to CUDA - Cerbras and Groq solve the interconnect…

> George Hotz is making better drivers for AMD lol

*George Hotz is making posts online talking about how AMD isn’t helping him

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep some CEO said they have 50K GPUs of the prior generation. They probably accumulated them through intermediaries that are basically helping nvidia sell to sanctioned parties by proxy

Deepseek was there side project. They had a lot of GPUs from their crypto mining project. Then Ethereum turned off PoW mining, so they looked into other things to do with their GPUs, and started DeepSeek.

Mining crypto on H100s?

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#45

Great article but it seems to have a fatal flaw. As pointed out in the article, Nvidia has several advantages including: - Better Linux drivers than AMD - CUDA - pytorch is optimized for Nvidia - High-speed interconnect Each of the advantages is under attack: - George Hotz is making better drivers for AMD - MLX, Triton, JAX: Higher level abstractions that compile down to CUDA - Cerbras and Groq solve the interconnect…

I want the NVIDIA monopoly to end, but there is no real competition still. * George Hotz has basically given up on AMD: https://x.com/__tinygrad__/status/1770151484363354195 * Groq can't produce more hardware past their "demo". It seems like they haven't grown capacity in the years since they announced, and they switched to a complete SaaS model and don't even sell hardware anymore. * I dont know enough about MLX, Tr…

That George Hotz tweet is from March last year. He's gone back and forth on AMD a bunch more times since then.

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#47
post #14

> Amazon gets a lot of flak for totally bungling their internal AI model development, squandering massive amounts of internal compute resources on models that ultimately are not competitive, but the custom silicon is another matter Juicy. Anyone have a link or context to this? I'd not heard of this reception to NOVA and related.

I think Nova may have changed things here. Prior to Nova their LLMs were pretty rubbish - Nova only came out in December but seems a whole lot better, at least from initial impressions: https://simonwillison.net/2024/Dec/4/amazon-nova/

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#48
This is excellent writing.

Even if you have no interest at all in stock market shorting strategies there is plenty of meaty technical content in here, including some of the clearest summaries I've seen anywhere of the interesting ideas from the DeepSeek v3 and R1 papers.

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. You just need to see a slight deceleration in projected revenue growth (which has been running 120%+ YoY recently) and some downward pressure on gross margins, and maybe even just some market share loss, and the stock could easily fall 25% from that.

AMD P/E ratio is 109, NVDA is 56. Which stock is overvalued?

That is extraordinarily simplistic. If NVDA is slowing and AMD has gains to realize compared to NVDA, then the 10x difference in market cap would imply that AMD is the better buy. Which is why I am long in AMD. You can't just look at the current P/E delta. You have to look at expectations of one vs the other. AMD gaining 2x over NVDA means they are approximately equivalently valued. If there are unrealized AI related gains all bets are off. AMD closing 50% of the gap in market cap value between NVDA and AMD means AMD is ~2.5x undervalued.

Disclaimer: long AMD, and not precise on percentages. Just illustrating a point.

Re: The impact of competition and DeepSeek on Nvidia

#50
> The beauty of the MOE model approach is that you can decompose the big model into a collection of smaller models that each know different, non-overlapping (at least fully) pieces of knowledge.

I was under the impression that this was not how MoE models work. They are not a collection of independent models, but instead a way of routing to a subset of active parameters at each layer. There is no "expert" that is loaded or unloaded per question. All of the weights are loaded in VRAM, its just a matter of which are actually loaded to the registers for calculation. As far as I could tell from the Deepseek v3/v2 papers, their MoE approach follows this instead of being an explicit collection of experts. If thats the case, theres no VRAM saving to be had using an MOE nor an ability to extract the weights of the expert to run locally (aside from distillation or similar).

If there is someone more versed on the construction of MoE architectures I would love some help understanding what I missed here.

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