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DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

arxiv.org

431–440 of 1001 posts

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#431

The US Economy is pretty vulnerable here. If it turns out that you, in fact, don't need a gazillion GPUs to build SOTA models it destroys a lot of perceived value. I wonder if this was a deliberate move by PRC or really our own fault in falling for the fallacy that more is always better.

How likely is this? Just a cursory probing of deepseek yields all kinds of censoring of topics. Isn't it just as likely Chinese sponsors of this have incentivized and sponsored an undercutting of prices so that a more favorable LLM is preferred on the market? Think about it, this is something they are willing to do with other industries. And, if LLMs are going to be engineering accelerators as the world believes, the…

it's not likely

as DeepSeek wasn't among China's major AI players before the R1 release, having maintained a relatively low profile. In fact, both DeepSeek-V2 and V3 had outperformed many competitors, I've seen some posts about that. However, these achievements received limited mainstream attention prior to their breakthrough release.

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#432
post #7

Over 100 authors on that paper. Cred stuffing ftw.

Physics papers often have hundreds.

Specifically, physics papers concerning research based on particle accelerator experiments always have hundreds or even more.

It doesn't minimize the research; that sort of thing just requires a lot of participants. But it does imply a lessening of credit per contributor, aside from the lead investigator(s).

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#433
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The censorship described in the article must be in the front-end. I just tried both the 32b (based on qwen 2.5) and 70b (based on llama 3.3) running locally and asked "What happened at tianamen square". Both answered in detail about the event. The models themselves seem very good based on other questions / tests I've run.

With no context, fresh run, 70b spits back: >> What happened at tianamen square? > > > I am sorry, I cannot answer that question. I am an AI assistant designed to provide helpful and harmless responses. It obviously hit a hard guardrail since it didn't even get to the point of thinking about it. edit: hah, it's even more clear when I ask a second time within the same context: "Okay, so the user is asking again about…

It told me to look elsewhere for historical questions, but then happily answered my question about Waterloo:

https://kagi.com/assistant/7bc4714e-2df6-4374-acc5-2c470ac85...

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#434
post #182

DeepSeek-R1 has apparently caused quite a shock wave in SV ... https://venturebeat.com/ai/why-everyone-in-ai-is-freaking-ou...

Correct me if I'm wrong but if Chinese can produce the same quality at %99 discount, then the supposed $500B investment is actually worth $5B. Isn't that the kind wrong investment that can break nations? Edit: Just to clarify, I don't imply that this is public money to be spent. It will commission $500B worth of human and material resources for 5 years that can be much more productive if used for something else - i.e…

500 billion can move whole country to renewable energy

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#436
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Communist theoretical texts the term "propaganda" is not negative and Communists are encouraged to produce propaganda to keep up morale in their own ranks and to produce propaganda that demoralize opponents. The recent wave of the average Chinese has a better quality of life than the average Westerner propaganda is an obvious example of propaganda aimed at opponents.

Is it propaganda if it's true?

Yes. True propaganda is generally more effective too.

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#437
post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump just pull a stunt with Saudi Arabia. He first tried to "convince" them to reduce the oil price to hurt Russia. In the following negotiations the oil price was no longer mentioned but MBS promised to invest $600 billion in the U.S. over 4 years: https://fortune.com/2025/01/23/saudi-crown-prince-mbs-trump-... Since the Stargate Initiative is a private sector deal, this may have been a perfect shakedown of Saudi A…

MBS does need to pay lip service to the US, but he's better off investing in Eurasia IMO, and/or in SA itself. US assets are incredibly overpriced right now. I'm sure he understands this, so lip service will be paid, dances with sabers will be conducted, US diplomats will be pacified, but in the end SA will act in its own interests.

One only needs to look as far back as the first Trump administration to see that Trump only cares about the announcement and doesn’t care about what’s actually done.

And if you don’t want to look that far just lookup what his #1 donor Musk said…there is no actual $500Bn.

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#438

DeepSeek-R1 has apparently caused quite a shock wave in SV ... https://venturebeat.com/ai/why-everyone-in-ai-is-freaking-ou...

The way it has destroyed the sacred commandment that you need massive compute to win in AI is earthshaking. Every tech company is spending tens of billions in AI compute every year. OpenAI starts charging 200/mo and trying to drum up 500 billion for compute. Nvidia is worth trillions on the basis it is the key to AI. How much of this is actually true?

Someone is going to make a lot of money shorting NVIDIA. I think in five years there is a decent chance openai doesnt exist, and the market cap of NVIDIA < 500B

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#439
post #151

Aside from the usual Tiananmen Square censorship, there's also some other propaganda baked-in: https://prnt.sc/HaSc4XZ89skA (from reddit)

Who cares? I ask O1 how to download a YouTube music playlist as a premium subscriber, and it tells me it can't help. Deepseek has no problem.

Human rights vs right to download stuff illegally

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#440

DeepSeek V3 came in the perfect time, precisely when Claude Sonnet turned into crap and barely allows me to complete something without me hitting some unexpected constraints. Idk, what their plans is and if their strategy is to undercut the competitors but for me, this is a huge benefit. I received 10$ free credits and have been using Deepseeks api a lot, yet, I have barely burned a single dollar, their pricing are t…

Can you tell me more about how Claude Sonnet went bad for you? I've been using the free version pretty happily, and felt I was about to upgrade to paid any day now (well, at least before the new DeepSeek).

I use the paid verison, it I'm pretty happy with it. It's a lot better than OpenAi products
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