How the Norwegians Reacted to Terrorism • Hacker News Board

Re: How the Norwegians Reacted to Terrorism

#41

Post by FelixP » Mon, Jul 23, 2012, 6:23 PM UTC

maayank wrote: post #10

a. It was domestic terrorism. Compare it to American reaction to domestic terrorism before 9/11 and we may start to have some actual merit in the comparison. There was no "War on terror" on the same scale after the Oklahoma City bombing (1995). b. There's a very different social reaction to domestic terrorism ("there's something rotten in us, we can fix this from the inside") and terrorism from the outside ("we're be…

re: "d. One could argue the US can't afford what Norway can afford," also perhaps in the literal sense as Norway has one of the highest per-capita GDPs in the world (along with a government budget surplus instead of a deficit).

Re: How the Norwegians Reacted to Terrorism

#42

Post by mcantelon » Mon, Jul 23, 2012, 6:24 PM UTC

seabee wrote: post #31

sliverstorm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot to add, "Wake up sheeple!"

We've been yelling at the sheeple long enough to know it's ineffective. What I want to know is what would it take to wake them?

Suffering will eventually wake them up, but by then the opportunities to do something about it will be considerably less.

Re: How the Norwegians Reacted to Terrorism

#43

Post by jacobr » Mon, Jul 23, 2012, 6:30 PM UTC

majorlazer wrote: post #39

buf wrote: post #30

Example of what's happening in San Francisco today: Obama is in town, they shut down four city blocks. Example of when I was last in Bulgaria: Bulgarian president was in town, he danced Horo (traditional Bulgarian dance) with the people and made toasts.

Yeah, let's compare the president of the most powerful country with 300M+ people with a president from a country who's total GDP is less than some of our billionaires. Makes a lot of sense. Can we please stop the USA hating around here?

Can you point me to an American with more than $265.911 billion?

Re: How the Norwegians Reacted to Terrorism

#44

Post by rmc » Mon, Jul 23, 2012, 6:32 PM UTC

vetler wrote: post #35

buf wrote: post #30

Example of what's happening in San Francisco today: Obama is in town, they shut down four city blocks. Example of when I was last in Bulgaria: Bulgarian president was in town, he danced Horo (traditional Bulgarian dance) with the people and made toasts.

There's a history of assassination attempts on US presidents, though. Not sure about the Bulgarian presidents?

Probably more revolutions and wars in Bulgaria

Re: How the Norwegians Reacted to Terrorism

#45

Post by tallanvor » Mon, Jul 23, 2012, 6:32 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #3

While I understand the point being made, Breivig apparently acted alone, and his actions were most similar to Timothy McVeigh. The proper comparison would be to compare changes in policy following Oklahoma City Federal Building bombing. After the bombing of Khobar Towers, the bombing of the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, the first World Trade Center bombing, the bombing of the USS Cole, and finally the acts of 9…

Breivik used violence in an attempt to cause political change (to try and force the government to stop promoting multiculturalism). That clearly fits within the definition of terrorism.

You are correct in saying that McVeigh's actions may not fit that definition, as he claimed that his motive was revenge for the government's actions on Waco and Ruby Ridge, rather than trying to force political change, but terrorism also refers to the state of fear that an act can cause, so you can still call him a terrorist.

The problem in the United States is that people are always willing to call Muslim extremists terrorists, but for some reason other individuals or groups that commit terrorist acts are simply labeled nuts, extremists, or the fringe element.

Re: How the Norwegians Reacted to Terrorism

#46

Post by MartinCron » Mon, Jul 23, 2012, 6:38 PM UTC

sheraz wrote: post #16

at-fates-hands wrote: post #6

Quite possibly the worst comparison I've ever seen. You're taking a country that not only has an incredibly low crime rate (they had 5 homicides in the entire country in 2009) and only has a population around 5 million. By comparison, Chicago has close to 3 million people just in the city. To try and compare our reaction to terrorism and how the Norwegians reacted to their recent mass killing is completely absurd.

Agreed. (and of course you were downvoted here). People love to hold Scandanavia up as an example as how the rest of the world "could be." However, I think that is such a naive point of view, and one that needs changing. Their populations are too small and lack diversity to make a realistic comparison to the USA or even their larger European neighbors. I usually like Mr. Schriener's work, but this post is a little of…

There's a middle ground between the wholesale Scandinavian worship (of which I have been guilty) and totally insular American exceptionalism (of which I have also been guilty).

There are many things that are done differently in other parts of the world, to great success, that we could adapt and learn from.

Re: How the Norwegians Reacted to Terrorism

#47

Post by meshko » Mon, Jul 23, 2012, 6:39 PM UTC

vetler wrote: post #33

meshko wrote: post #26

With all due respect to Mr Schneier, I think this comparison is not 100% valid. There is a substantial difference between a terrorist threat from a lone mentally ill person and an organized group with ideology shared by thousands of people.

There is still debate on whether or not he is mentally ill. See day 39 - 40 here, plus closing speeches: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Anders_Behring_Breivik...

I think this debate is in the lawyer land, not in the mental health land.

Re: How the Norwegians Reacted to Terrorism

#48

Post by tkahn6 » Mon, Jul 23, 2012, 6:39 PM UTC

jacobr wrote: post #43

majorlazer wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, let's compare the president of the most powerful country with 300M+ people with a president from a country who's total GDP is less than some of our billionaires. Makes a lot of sense. Can we please stop the USA hating around here?

Can you point me to an American with more than $265.911 billion?

GDP of Bulgaria is $48B...

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=blugaria+gdp

Re: How the Norwegians Reacted to Terrorism

#49

Post by tkahn6 » Mon, Jul 23, 2012, 6:41 PM UTC

tallanvor wrote: post #45

JackFr wrote: post #3

While I understand the point being made, Breivig apparently acted alone, and his actions were most similar to Timothy McVeigh. The proper comparison would be to compare changes in policy following Oklahoma City Federal Building bombing. After the bombing of Khobar Towers, the bombing of the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, the first World Trade Center bombing, the bombing of the USS Cole, and finally the acts of 9…

Breivik used violence in an attempt to cause political change (to try and force the government to stop promoting multiculturalism). That clearly fits within the definition of terrorism. You are correct in saying that McVeigh's actions may not fit that definition, as he claimed that his motive was revenge for the government's actions on Waco and Ruby Ridge, rather than trying to force political change, but terrorism a…

> but for some reason other individuals or groups that commit terrorist acts are simply labeled nuts, extremists, or the fringe element.

Yeah I'm sure that fits nicely with your narrative but can you provide any evidence of that?

Re: How the Norwegians Reacted to Terrorism

#50

Post by spiffistan » Mon, Jul 23, 2012, 6:42 PM UTC

at-fates-hands wrote: post #6

Quite possibly the worst comparison I've ever seen. You're taking a country that not only has an incredibly low crime rate (they had 5 homicides in the entire country in 2009) and only has a population around 5 million. By comparison, Chicago has close to 3 million people just in the city. To try and compare our reaction to terrorism and how the Norwegians reacted to their recent mass killing is completely absurd.

Get your facts straight - There were 29 homicides in Norway in 2009

Source: https://www.politi.no/vedlegg/lokale_vedlegg/kripos/Vedlegg_...

Still very low, but 580% more than five. That said, I agree that the idea of comparing a country with 5 million inhabitants to the US is not entirely right, given to

(a) The heterogeneity of the US population and, (b) The US being two orders of magnitude more populated. It really is more of a continent than a country.