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Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

samcurry.net

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Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#281

Post by GJim »

dantillberg wrote: post #112

Last year, I submitted a "right to know" request to Subaru, and they sent the following back. I've reformatted it for legibility. Basically asserts they'll do and sell whatever they want (except another car to me). > Subaru may collect the following personal information about a consumer: > Categories of personal information: > Identifiers: Consumer records, Commercial information, Internet or Other Electronic Network…

But not in the UK or EU.

Need I say which law protects us..... the one a significant number of HN readers (a technical news site!) appear to remain in shocking ignorance of?

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#282

Post by coldpie »

plagiarist wrote: post #5

I wish that keeping this much data was a liability. I want companies to be liable for damages in the millions of dollars if they share an entire year's worth of location data without express permission from the vehicle owner. HIPAA for "just" PII.

The best case scenario for the next 5-10 years is that there will be no new federal privacy regulations. More likely, privacy regulations will be even further relaxed and customers will have even less recourse for violations.

You might have some luck pursuing this at the state level if you're lucky enough to live in a handful of states such as California or Minnesota.

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#283

Post by rtkwe »

willis936 wrote: post #119
dylan604 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could do that with a key fob well before connected cars were a thing. People just choose to ignore the most basic of information

And car manufacturers are incentivized to remove such valuable and logical features. Enshittification abounds.

IMO it's a mixed bag. Being able to start the process from further away than your key fob is an improvement because it can get actually warm if you're walking to it rather than it just have a minute head start which at idle doesn't always get the engine warm enough to be nice and toasty.

For electric vehicles there's also benefits when charging because you can actually leave your vehicle and check if it's charged while you eat/shop/walk/etc to kill the time.

Then if you have kids that drive but don't have their own vehicle yet the location and speed tracking a lot of these apps provide is probably a big plus to them too. I'd certainly feel more comfortable with my kid using a car knowing I can find where they are and that they'll be a bit safer drivers since they can actually be caught speeding, I know I was reckless knowing there was basically no way for my parents to know.

None of this requires collection and storage of location long term but that's companies just following the profit motive of our entire system. It's shitty and bad they're allowed to do it but I'm hardly surprised that they do.

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#284

Post by acheron »

mattmaroon wrote: post #268
dang wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, we've taken Starlink out of the title above. Thanks!

NP. It wasn't inaccurate, but surely confusing to people who haven't owned a Subaru!

Ha that never even occurred to me because I've had the Subaru Starlink for years.

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#285

Post by prh8 »

warkdarrior wrote: post #208
simonlc wrote: post #104

Question, if you can remote start a subaru with starlink, does that mean I could start my car from the command line during winter??? I don't pay for starlink, never really looked into it, but it sounds cheaper than installing a remote start system lol.

https://github.com/G-Two/subarulink

that still requires an active subscription unfortunately

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#286

Post by meristohm »

cmgbhm wrote: post #206
Melatonic wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good to know Seems pretty blanket wide legalese. The part about audio recordings seems a bit troublesome however

The non troublesome use-case is clicking the starlink button and taking to their support. Having bought a Subaru, I really tried to see where the consent is in the process. In my case, I think it’s the account establishment process that the dealer did.

In this case, how is consent revoked?

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#287

Post by InitialLastName »

selimthegrim wrote: post #111
beezle wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as an aside - a friend had their car nicked in NYC this winter. He was able to tell the cops the car location from some Toyota find my car type thing. The cops said they saw nothing on the street so unless he could come and make the horn beep infront of a garage - and then get a warrant - there was nothing more to do. He now has a new vehicle.

This might say more about the NYPD than Toyota

If I'm a sensible person running a police department, with full knowledge of the here-described bugs and hazards as well as the deep experience all police get in the general "people being jerks" spectrum, it's gonna take a lot more than someone on the phone saying "my car manufacturer's app says the car is in there" to bust down the doors of some random place.

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#288

Post by lfshammu »

scottbez1 wrote: post #135
duxup wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love my Subaru as far as reliability, all wheel drive performance in snow and ice, and such. But OMG it's consumer tech was dated when I bough it, and it's just full of inexplicable issues and caveats and such. Even just the limitations and the UX issues are so obvious that it sends a message that if they tried to fix them they would introduce just as many new issues. I'm at the point where despite the car being go…

Hmm this is really different than my experience with a 2018 Crosstrek, so maybe things have changed? When I bought it, Subaru was among the earlier CarPlay/Android Auto adopters (we specifically ruled out a new model year Prius because it lacked it and we couldn't wait a year to replace our totaled car just for CarPlay/AA), and other than a very rare issue where the head unit screen doesn't turn on, it's been pretty…

2018 is the last year some Subaru models had non-terrible head units. The iPad style vertically oriented screen are the problematic type.

Physical controls are gone, the UX is terrible, and the hardware is underpowered post 2018.

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#289

Post by lfshammu »

OptionOfT wrote: post #278
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subaru infotainment is also very controlling. Want to use the keypad while you’re taking a phone call on the go? No, it won’t let you if the car is moving. You’ll need to use your phone’s UI. Other CarPlay cars don’t do this.

My BMW does the same. I can't use the CarPlay keyboard while moving. It is especially annoying since the car does not (can not) distinguish between me or the missus pressing the touch screen.

On my VW I disabled this limitation with a VCDS coder. What's funny is that the flag was labeled 'nhtsa_limitation_switches_for_X' nhtsa as in National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

Re: Hacking Subaru: Tracking and controlling cars via the admin panel

#290

Post by _huayra_ »

rozab wrote: post #279
_huayra_ wrote: post #95

FYI for Subaru owners, you can opt out and have your data deleted anywhere in the US (not just California): https://www.subaru.com/support/consumer-privacy.html It'll take ~6 months or so, but they will send you a confirmation email.

It would be cool if the researcher could have tested this before reporting

I would guess that opted-out cars like mine are still "in the system", as I can still do all the MySubaru app stuff like un/lock, start, etc.
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