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Don’t Jump to Conclusions About the Killer

nytimes.com

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Re: Don’t Jump to Conclusions About the Killer

#191

Post by Alex3917 »

eavc wrote: post #175
Alex3917 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is very, very far away from the majority view of modern psychology (which has dismissed the vast majority of Freudian thought), but I still hear it repeated all the damn time." Actually a lot of therapists still use personal mythology construction as a therapy tool, which is very similar to Freud's idea of directing anger outward in the sense that both creating a new identity for the person or strengthening the…

He wasn't talking about what "a lot of therapists" do but rather the modern understanding of depression and its causes and solutions.

What a lot of therapists do is by definition part of the modern understanding of depression and its causes and solutions. Depression is a biopsychosocial disease, so to have any real understanding of it you need to look at it through a variety of lenses and disciplines.

Re: Don’t Jump to Conclusions About the Killer

#192

Post by CamperBob2 »

josephcooney wrote: post #190
CamperBob2 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theory is that certain risk-reduction measures work in general, minimizing the chance that some individual will engage in any kind of incident like the one in Aurora, Colorado. Gun control is such a sensitive issue in the United States that it is barely being discussed yet by politicians in connection with the incident this weekend, but differing national patterns of gun control have been mentioned by commentator…

I guess the thing is that gasoline has many non-killing uses, whereas guns don't. I live in a country where access to guns is much more tightly controlled than in the US, and I'm glad of it. Sure, under some circumstances a can of gasoline can be more lethal than a gun, but the prospect someone chasing me down the street at 3AM with a can of gasoline doesn't scare me nearly as much as someone chasing me with a gun. T…

It would only be a straw man if arson weren't a good way to kill a lot of people at once. Events have proven otherwise.

This particular assclown had the smarts to do a lot more damage than he did. If he couldn't have put his hands on firearms, who's to say what he might have done instead? Turn himself in peacefully? I'm guessing not. He might have gone full Aum Shinrikyo on the theater full of people.

Re: Don’t Jump to Conclusions About the Killer

#193

Post by japhyr »

csense wrote: post #147
japhyr wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate the trite response, "We must do whatever it takes to make sure this kind of thing happens again." These things are going to happen again, as they have happened throughout history. We can, however, do many things to try to minimize the number of incidents like this. Unfortunately for the paranoid gun rights lobby, some form of gun control is a necessary but not sufficient part of the answer to this issue.

I don't see how being in favor of the Constitutionally protected right to bear arms automatically makes someone "paranoid." I hope you're wrong about gun control being a necessary part of the answer to this issue, because as far as I can tell, it's simply not a practical possibility in the USA.

gun control != ban on guns

Re: Don’t Jump to Conclusions About the Killer

#194

Post by grandalf »

mikeash wrote: post #182
grandalf wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're at it we should also be doing something to prevent asteroid impacts, tsunamis, and rare genetic diseases.

Yes, indeed. I assume you're being sarcastic, which is odd, given that there is a fair bit of effort put in place to search for near-Earth asteroids that could potentially collide with the planet, with an eye toward eventually being able to deflect them, there are a lot of systems put in place to mitigate the effects of tsunamis, and quite a bit of research into rare genetic diseases.

asteroids: that's military tech in disguise, not humanity-saving foresight.

tsunamis: detection only, not prevention.

rare diseases: some are rare enough that virtually no substantive research is done.

Re: Don’t Jump to Conclusions About the Killer

#195

Post by Dylan16807 »

Ygg2 wrote: post #29
etherael wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe emotion is useless because it is largely a distraction. By this I mean that if there are reasons other than emotional to take a course of action, the positive enforcement of emotion to push you in that direction is unnecessary. However, if there are no reasons other than emotional in order to undertake an action, that's a good indicator that the action is not a good path to take. This doesn't mean that an a…

Actually no. Emotions help us by allowing quick shortcuts in decision. Without them a person loses ability to think within normal limits. Remember last time you wrote your signature on a contract. Imagine taking half an hour to write your signature ? Impossible, well without emotion you will completely rationally debate whether or not to use blue, red or black pen, which ink color is better, etc. Here is a quote: For…

I wish that went more in depth. It seems like a metareasoning reminder that taking time to decide is inefficient would turn into a quick choice. Unless someone without emotions is somehow incapable of picking random numbers.

Re: Don’t Jump to Conclusions About the Killer

#196

Post by light3 »

Alex3917 wrote: post #191
eavc wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't talking about what "a lot of therapists" do but rather the modern understanding of depression and its causes and solutions.

What a lot of therapists do is by definition part of the modern understanding of depression and its causes and solutions. Depression is a biopsychosocial disease, so to have any real understanding of it you need to look at it through a variety of lenses and disciplines.

I assumed "view of modern psychology" as used by parent meaning some generally accepted views of academics backed up by current experimental research results. Which as the parent states is in conflict with current practices of therapists.

Re: Don’t Jump to Conclusions About the Killer

#197

Post by vacri »

Samuel_Michon wrote: post #161
vacri wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not uniquely American, sure. But Europe has 2.5 times the population of the USA, yet has only 12 listings in the last 10 years in your first link, against the USA's 10. In the second link, the page points to individual pages for rampage killers, which give 19 for the USA in the last 10 years against 13 for Europe. But really, arguing about spree killers isn't really the way to do it, even though they are symptom…

“the highest rate in a western first-world country (= similar culture base) that isn't the US is Israel at 2.1, less than half the US.” And since Israel is in the middle of a civil war, those numbers can be easily explained. More curious is Finland, a western first-world country, which has the same homicide rate as Israel (per your link.)

Finland has a lot of problems with Seasonal Affective Disorder due to their latitude - they also rate highly when it comes to suicide rates.

Re: Don’t Jump to Conclusions About the Killer

#198

Post by aidenn0 »

mikeash wrote: post #162
jeffdavis wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So far I am not aware of any reason for young people in residential neighborhoods in the United States to have what are called "assault rifles" for legitimate purposes, and I certainly would be glad to know that none are in my (crime-free) neighborhood." What about suspending the Fourth Amendment? Surely enough random house checks, possibly automated with cameras, could also detect possible criminal activity and sav…

The thing is that the second amendment appears to be fundamentally different, in terms of human rights, from the rest. There are a lot of good arguments as to why allowing free speech, prohibiting unreasonable search and seizures, and other such things is a good thing in general, and are fundamental issues of human rights and freedoms. There are substantially fewer arguments as to why gun ownership is important to fr…

2nd amendment is important because it makes it harder for people to ignore the other 9.

This is why Iraq/Afghanistan have bothered me so much, the US military has greatly enhanced their ability to fight a war of attrition against a civillian population with rifles and IEDs, which is exactly the sort of resistance they would have in the event of a popular revolt.

Re: Don’t Jump to Conclusions About the Killer

#199

Post by eavc »

Alex3917 wrote: post #191
eavc wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't talking about what "a lot of therapists" do but rather the modern understanding of depression and its causes and solutions.

What a lot of therapists do is by definition part of the modern understanding of depression and its causes and solutions. Depression is a biopsychosocial disease, so to have any real understanding of it you need to look at it through a variety of lenses and disciplines.

"What a lot of therapists do is by definition part of the modern understanding of depression and its causes and solutions."

No. What psychologists have determined constitutes the modern understanding. Therapists ought to work in a way that reflects that knowledge. Most do.

Re: Don’t Jump to Conclusions About the Killer

#200

Post by eavc »

light3 wrote: post #196
Alex3917 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a lot of therapists do is by definition part of the modern understanding of depression and its causes and solutions. Depression is a biopsychosocial disease, so to have any real understanding of it you need to look at it through a variety of lenses and disciplines.

I assumed "view of modern psychology" as used by parent meaning some generally accepted views of academics backed up by current experimental research results. Which as the parent states is in conflict with current practices of therapists.

Exactly. But to be clear, there are, of course, many, many therapists that practice scientifically supported approaches to treating depression.
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