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People are bad at reporting what they eat. That's a problem for dietary research

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Re: People are bad at reporting what they eat. That's a problem for dietary research

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so dismissive it's almost condescending. I know how much food I need to eat in order to survive and maintain a healthy weight. But if I eat that amount of food, I'm still hungry . Doesn't matter what I eat. I'll eat a diet high in protein and fiber, moderate in fat, and low in sugar and starches, which is supposed to be the recipe to feel full without eating empty calories, but it doesn't work. 16 oz steak pa…

I'm kinda convinced that something has changed (prescription meds ending up in the water supply? micro plastics?) that makes people hungrier than they were in the mid 20th century. the effort required to eat less seems higher than ever, and you can't totally explain the gap and rise in obesity with just lifestyle and food availability. if some unknown element was making everyone's internal thermostat aim for more foo…

Our genes are heavily evolved to live in calorie scarce environments. In those environments, high calorie foods are amazing. Our biology is built to find them incredibly rewarding.

Science and capitalism have created incredibly delicious foods that are nutritionally lacking, hyper optimized for (against?) our now mis-aligned reward system. In the west, calories are not scarce and the most delcious foods are far from the most nutritious. It will take a long time for our genes to catchup.

Mass producing delicious, cheap, but low nutrition food is profitable. Companies have gotten very good at it. That's the real big change.

Re: People are bad at reporting what they eat. That's a problem for dietary research

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kinda convinced that something has changed (prescription meds ending up in the water supply? micro plastics?) that makes people hungrier than they were in the mid 20th century. the effort required to eat less seems higher than ever, and you can't totally explain the gap and rise in obesity with just lifestyle and food availability. if some unknown element was making everyone's internal thermostat aim for more foo…

Our genes are heavily evolved to live in calorie scarce environments. In those environments, high calorie foods are amazing. Our biology is built to find them incredibly rewarding. Science and capitalism have created incredibly delicious foods that are nutritionally lacking, hyper optimized for (against?) our now mis-aligned reward system. In the west, calories are not scarce and the most delcious foods are far from…

that's the macro change, yeah, but the rate of increase in obesity in the us got sharper after the 80s, so it doesn't feel like the complete picture to me.

we got the abundant food and the largely car bound live cycles and it still kept getting worse for decades after that point. I suppose it could be generations growing up only knowing this and so habituated to it more?

Re: People are bad at reporting what they eat. That's a problem for dietary research

#344
post #339

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Yes, diabetics need to precisely adjust their insulin intake in proportion to carbohydrate intake.

Also when figuring out how much insulin is needed for a given amount of carbs you need to factor in the type of carbs, your individual response to that type of carbs, what fats/protein/fiber you eat with it (fats and fiber tend to slow down the BG rise from carbs, protein can cause a rise when eaten on its own but can also slow down the rise from carbs), what time of day it is (I need around double the amount of insu…

For my wife (type 1 diabetic), physical activity is the big one that throws off her calculations as a walk in a hilly area makes her blood sugar drop like a rock. Of course she always has something with sugar with her but then she has to figure out how much to consume.

Re: People are bad at reporting what they eat. That's a problem for dietary research

#345
post #310
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't help that food manufacturers intentionally make it hard to measure nutrition from most of their foods. They play around with serving sizes to hide carbohydrates making you have to do math just to keep up. Sometimes they will round down on grams of macros after setting the serving size so they can claim it has zero sugar when it does in fact have tons of sugar. Tic-tacs are the worst about this. They claim…

The rounding rule is carbs https://foodlabelmaker.com/regulatory-hub/fda/rounding-rules...

So you can just make the serving size so small that everything is less than 0.5g

Re: People are bad at reporting what they eat. That's a problem for dietary research

#346
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't help that food manufacturers intentionally make it hard to measure nutrition from most of their foods. They play around with serving sizes to hide carbohydrates making you have to do math just to keep up. Sometimes they will round down on grams of macros after setting the serving size so they can claim it has zero sugar when it does in fact have tons of sugar. Tic-tacs are the worst about this. They claim…

In the EU, food manufacturers are required to label macronutrients (and salt) in mg/100mg or mg/100ml for fluids. Easy to compare, works great.

This makes so much more sense than the labels in the USA.

Re: People are bad at reporting what they eat. That's a problem for dietary research

#347
post #116

For those that "track and weight everything" (how ?) do you manage ?: - sauces you make yourself? I often mix some different oils, mustard, seeds, miso, bit of leamon juice and spices… but weighting and logging everything will take 3x the time to do the sauce itself - different cooking time in one receive : oignons going first, tomato sauce in the middle and parsley at the end (but still cook a bit with residual heat…

This won't be useful for you because you share food with others, but for people who do not share food and are interested in long term tracking rather than short term (e.g., they want to take off some weight at a healthy rate and keep it off, as opposed to people who just want to lose a few pounds rapidly for their class reunion and will make no effort after that to keep it off) there is a simple trick that can make i…

Even simpler if just looking after oneself: keep the receipts, make the accounting YEARLY.

I have a whole food, plant-based diet and I cook all my own food. I don't buy any processed food, anything with anything animal in it, refined sugar, refined oils (except olive oil for the air fryer), refined carbohydrates, things preserved with salt/vinegar/oil or any stimulants. For B12 I eat Marmite (UK). Most of what I eat is that rare thing: fresh vegetables.

Because I eat almost everything (sometimes there are bad apples), I throw very little away and that includes packaging too, where I am surprised at how little that amounts to. I have a small box for recycling and I only have to empty it ever two to three months.

I could cheat and not keep the receipt on a huge box of chocolates, beer and biscuits but I would only be fooling myself.

As for bread, I just buy flour and yeast, to put it in the breadmaking machine. I buy wholemeal flour which is white flour with some of the stripped off parts of the wheat thrown back in. I am happy with that compromise as it makes a very nice loaf.

Apart from Marmite, nothing I buy has much of an ingredients label, a cauliflower is a cauliflower and has no ingredients.

The receipts are my way of accounting, I could look at them all for the last year and buy everything I need that is shelf-stable for the year ahead.

Mayonnaise used to be something I did eat a lot of, but now that is on the banned list, and I have no idea why I would ever want to eat that stuff nowadays.

I eat to satiety and beyond, my physical activity consists of walking/cycling and I am fitter than I have ever been with a digestive tract that is rock solid. Bloating, constipation or the runs are alien conditions to me, I also get a 'long range bladder' into the deal.

I don't count calories, my goal is to get as many as possible from just vegetables, beans, legumes, nuts, grains and fruit. I love cooking and my 'self care' routine. Since there are seasons, my food always changes, right now spring greens are floating my boat.

The idea of keeping the receipts is to have all of them with no banned items in them, and also to track my nutrition experiments. At the moment I am trying to do a year long streak of 'an apple a day' to see what that is about.

Regarding counting macronutrients, why bother? Nobody counts fibre, which is crucial for the lower gut, with protein we eat 2x in the West and nobody is counting phytochemicals in plants beyond the 'five a day' thing. With the exception of bread, everything I eat counts towards the 'five a day' so I am probably on twenty portions of fruit or veg a day, not that I am counting.

I don't mind people wanting to diet to fit into a dress for a special event, that is something that works for them, albeit with yoyoing. I want to be at my fittest during the summer months, to go cycling, and, during winter, I don't care. In this way I am embracing yoyoing, however, my weight does not go up over winter, I just lose some muscle, to get it back again during spring.

Re: People are bad at reporting what they eat. That's a problem for dietary research

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counting works for people because it quantifies their food intake. For many people, that's an effective way to overcome a learned idea that portions should be huge, or that feeling hungry has to be addressed immediately, or that feeling "full" has to be constant. It's not perfect, and I don't recommend it to people with an ED history; however, after about a month or 2 of doing it, it can really change how you look at…

> I don't recommend it to people with an ED history Your daily reminder that ED means more than one thing.

[deleted]

Re: People are bad at reporting what they eat. That's a problem for dietary research

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a diabetic but adult later onset lactose intolerant and the problem is you really have NO idea what restaurants put into stuff, even if you ask. Even a stupid salad, what's in the dressing, what's in the bread/croutons, what was the meat glazed with. Etc. Restaurant food tastes good because it is generally unhealthy top to bottom, with quantities of salt, butter, etc no sane person would use at home. One thought…

Things are changing nonetheless. My wife is celiac (we’re quite a problematic family: I’m diabetic, she’s celiac), but by law, she is guaranteed that a suitable menu must be available wherever she goes, or at least that waitstaff and business owners know how to handle the situation when she informs them. (I know for a fact that managing celiac disease and the most severe and dangerous intolerances is a mandatory requ…

I think in the US, it's basically an intractable problem the way restaurants operate and are staffed. Low margin, high failure rate businesses with many fly by night small operators. Front of house staff is high turnover, while back of house staff is largely non-English speaking of sometimes questionable immigration/work permit status.

And then there is the supply chain since most restaurants are not cooking every single part of every meal from absolute scratch ingredients.

There was a story about a woman near us operating some sort of celiac friendly/gluten free bakery. One day the donuts were delivered and she noticed some D shaped sprinkles and realized her supplier had come up short and just put some random Dunkin Donuts into the delivery. Good on her catching it, but how in good conscience could she operate a bakery advertising itself as celiac friendly/gluten free if she was outsourcing like this?

If I had any sort of food allergy that could result in hospitalization or death, I'd just stop eating out. I'd rather be a little boring than very dead.

Re: People are bad at reporting what they eat. That's a problem for dietary research

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus the whole sugar vs. sugar alcohol nonsense, which I still don't completely understand.

IANA nutritionist or expert at all in this area so take this with a grain of salt, but my understanding from looking into it is that the sugar alcohol doesn't break down in digestion and isn't absorbed, that's why the "carbs" from sugar alcohol "don't count." I would recommend taking it easy on the sugar alcohols even though they "don't count" because they can cause significant gas ;-)

It depends on the type. Some are partially digested as carbohydrates. Others are not. You can look up their individual Glycemin Index.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0261/4761/8864/files/Scree...

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