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Show HN: Personalized Duolingo (kind of) for vocabulary building

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Re: Show HN: Personalized Duolingo (kind of) for vocabulary building

#41

Post by 3D30497420 »

PeterSmit wrote: post #33
tkgally wrote: post #25

This looks really good. I wish I had had something like this many years ago when I was studying languages. Somebody has already suggested adding spaced repetition and audio, which I agree with completely. One more suggestion: In addition to having the LLM give you the meaning and example for the context in which you originally saw the word, also ask it to provide the word’s other main meanings and examples of it bein…

I’ve had this same idea, and it doesn’t work. Or at least: it works quote well, but the problem is that you get hallucinations. And it can be incredibly discouraging to find out the flashcards you’ve been cramming are completlh wrong.

I've had this same problem using ChatGPT and German. Even for basic German hallucinations can be unexpected and problematic. (I don't recall the model, but it was a recent one.)

In one instance, I was having it correct akkusativ/dativ/nominativ sentences and it would say the sentence is in one case when I knew it was in another case. I'd ask ChatGPT if it was sure, and then it would change its answer. If pressed further, it would again change its answer.

I was originally quite excited about using an LLM for my language practice, but now I'm pretty cautious with it.

It is also why I'm very skeptical of AI-based language learning apps, especially if the creator is not a native speaker.

Re: Show HN: Personalized Duolingo (kind of) for vocabulary building

#42

Post by jkoff »

sebnun wrote: post #5

Great work, I had a similar need, and built a similar app (using podcasts) [1] I originally planned to add some kind of SRS to it, but I found that I learned much better just reading things in context instead of explicitly using SRS to memorize them. Steve Kaufmann (creator of LingQ) explains this better here [2] [1] https://www.langturbo.com [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t26IPxExmzs

I did a double-take at the description since for a second I thought we were building the same tool. This is really cool, and seems like it'd greatly expand the set of podcasts I can listen to.

What I'm working on is different but similarly aimed at breaking through the intermediate plateau. I'm generating comprehensible input in podcast form, targeting the vocabulary used to fit a specific learning goal (e.g. "I want to be able to watch show X without subtitles") and systematically repeating the words at specific intervals to improve retention.

It works well as a prototype. I've listened to it for ~16 hours so far and it does seem to help me with vocabulary acquisition.

I'm still gauging whether I should polish and release it as a product, and would love some feedback and/or sign-ups:

https://letmeknow.jkoff.ca/infinite-ci?utm_source=hn

Re: Show HN: Personalized Duolingo (kind of) for vocabulary building

#43

Post by arbayi »

Thank you so much to everyone contributing to this thread! I learned a lot here just by sharing this - the power of open source, I guess! From all those conversations and recommendations, I've gathered a list of features that will hopefully be built in next coming days:

- A more user-friendly approach to running the app

- LiteLLM integration so we can use any LLM (it's done! thanks to @enessusan00!)

- Running the database locally

- Customizable language preferences (e.g., learning German through Turkish)

- A live version where anyone can easily try the app

- A protection mechanism for LLM responses to ensure getting valid JSON

- Fixing small bugs

- Customizable exercise types (ability to enable/disable specific question formats)

We'll be focusing on improving the app as much as we can, but help would be greatly appreciated! We'll be structuring the repository to make it easier for everyone to contribute together.

I'm truly amazed by all the insights and suggestions shared here. There are so many great ideas. Thank you all again for making this discussion so enriching and the support. I'll keep sharing updates here! All amazing suggestions shared here will be added to the roadmap in the README!

Re: Show HN: Personalized Duolingo (kind of) for vocabulary building

#44

Post by bigfishrunning »

agos wrote: post #40
inetknght wrote: post #38

Some thoughts I'm on a Duolingo family plan, studying Ukrainian. It keeps throwing more and more difficult words without really building my knowledge and experience with the previous words. I'm not sure if I can't hear the words correctly (it's possible, I'm partially deaf and it sounds like the voices it provides are low quality). I'm not sure if I'm not pronouncing them correctly (it often doesn't accept my pronunc…

wait, are you dictating into Duolingo? is it available only to some languages?

It's available in Spanish, on Android, (which is the only duolingo permutation I have experience with) and seems to use google's speech recognition backend.

Re: Show HN: Personalized Duolingo (kind of) for vocabulary building

#45

Post by inetknght »

agos wrote: post #40
inetknght wrote: post #38

Some thoughts I'm on a Duolingo family plan, studying Ukrainian. It keeps throwing more and more difficult words without really building my knowledge and experience with the previous words. I'm not sure if I can't hear the words correctly (it's possible, I'm partially deaf and it sounds like the voices it provides are low quality). I'm not sure if I'm not pronouncing them correctly (it often doesn't accept my pronunc…

wait, are you dictating into Duolingo? is it available only to some languages?

> wait, are you dictating into Duolingo?

Am I dictating insomuch as writing speaking free-form words and it writes them down? No.

Duolingo will present a word and ask me to verbalize them into the microphone.

Duolingo will present a phrase or sentence and ask me to verbalize them into the microphone.

I know that Duolingo will do this also for learning German.

Re: Show HN: Personalized Duolingo (kind of) for vocabulary building

#46

Post by arbayi »

tkgally wrote: post #25

This looks really good. I wish I had had something like this many years ago when I was studying languages. Somebody has already suggested adding spaced repetition and audio, which I agree with completely. One more suggestion: In addition to having the LLM give you the meaning and example for the context in which you originally saw the word, also ask it to provide the word’s other main meanings and examples of it bein…

Thank you! I think that would be a good feature. I use the app, and it works fine when I add words as I encounter them, but when I later revisit the list, I sometimes wish I could see the sentences where the word were used (originally) to better understand it. Based on your suggestion, having a 'show examples' button/link below the meaning would be a cool feature to add.

Re: Show HN: Personalized Duolingo (kind of) for vocabulary building

#47

Post by arbayi »

3D30497420 wrote: post #41
PeterSmit wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve had this same idea, and it doesn’t work. Or at least: it works quote well, but the problem is that you get hallucinations. And it can be incredibly discouraging to find out the flashcards you’ve been cramming are completlh wrong.

I've had this same problem using ChatGPT and German. Even for basic German hallucinations can be unexpected and problematic. (I don't recall the model, but it was a recent one.) In one instance, I was having it correct akkusativ/dativ/nominativ sentences and it would say the sentence is in one case when I knew it was in another case. I'd ask ChatGPT if it was sure, and then it would change its answer. If pressed furt…

Would agentic workflows come in handy in these cases? I mean having a controller agent after the sentence is created, where this agent would be able to search the web or have access to a database? or personal notes and ensure everything is correct.

Re: Show HN: Personalized Duolingo (kind of) for vocabulary building

#48

Post by arbayi »

tkgally wrote: post #35
PeterSmit wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve had this same idea, and it doesn’t work. Or at least: it works quote well, but the problem is that you get hallucinations. And it can be incredibly discouraging to find out the flashcards you’ve been cramming are completlh wrong.

What models have you been using for that? While I haven’t tried automating the production of vocabulary lists through an API, within the last few weeks I have had the chat versions of ChatGPT 4o, Claude Sonnet 3.5, and one of the latest Gemini models produce annotated vocabulary lists based on literary texts in English, Russian, and Latin. I didn’t spot any hallucinations. I was asking only for the meanings of the wo…

I wonder if there are any benchmarks specifically designed to evaluate LLMs' performance in language learning tasks

Re: Show HN: Personalized Duolingo (kind of) for vocabulary building

#49

Post by arbayi »

flemhans wrote: post #32

Is there a "Duolingo" that takes a web site as input and makes it into a course? So I could learn by reading e.g. a geeky news site in the language to be learned.

Would be cool to have such a tool, maybe an extension using chrome's built-in AI APIs?

Re: Show HN: Personalized Duolingo (kind of) for vocabulary building

#50

Post by arbayi »

trizoza wrote: post #37

This is absolutely amazing. Can I check how do you check the memorized retention? Are you increasing the period of testing a word once it's successfully memorized by doubles, in 1day, in 2days, in 4days, 8days, etc.?

Thank you! The app doesn't have such a feature yet, but I think it will be needed eventually, and it has been recommended before. I will add this to the roadmap.
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