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I Met Paul Graham Once

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661–670 of 860 posts

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#661

Once upon a time, not that long ago, within my lifetime in fact, being gay was targeted for public abuse the way that transgender people are being targeting now. That has declined as people came to understand that being gay, lesbian, bi is part of how a person is made. Under public pressure, a gay person can act straight or at least act not gay. But it doesn't change who they are, doesn't help anyone around them, and…

> A transgender person is someone who is absolutely miserable when they are not permitted to express the gender they feel.

Is that true of everyone who identifies as trans, though?

I get the impression there is a subset of trans folks for whom this is the case, and many others (perhaps a majority) who simply prefer to use different pronouns than the ones they started with.

I would love to have data that establishes whether that impression is correct or incorrect. There appears to be a puzzling conflation between folks who enjoy or prefer alternative gender expressions and folks whose survival depends on it, and it would be a great relief to know what's really going on.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#662
I read the Paul Graham article mentioned here immediately before reading the Neil Gaiman exposé, and it left a sour taste in my mouth.

PG is an incredible writer and contributor to this community, but that doesn't mean he isn't human (as others have been saying). Open minded people who spend too much time with the same group of global elites (including tech-minded POCs and trans people etc.) end up thinking social justice has already been served and start wondering if those saying it has gone too far are correct.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#663

I read the Paul Graham article mentioned here immediately before reading the Neil Gaiman exposé, and it left a sour taste in my mouth. PG is an incredible writer and contributor to this community, but that doesn't mean he isn't human (as others have been saying). Open minded people who spend too much time with the same group of global elites (including tech-minded POCs and trans people etc.) end up thinking social ju…

Yeah, PG just seems completely out of touch and isolated in a bubble- not understanding the reality of what people different than him are facing day to day in terms of racism and discrimination. I am white but in a mixed race family- and see the racism black people face day to day: getting followed and watched when they shop in a store, being always accused and suspected first when something goes wrong at work, being seen as dangerous or violent if they ever get visibly upset, etc.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#664
post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I define "trying to market a beer that's commonly drunk by Republicans using a trans influencer" as woke because it's: A) ineffective at marketing the beer, because it prioritises a social justice objective instead (making it a political stance) B) ineffective at changing any Bud drinker's mind on trans people, because it prioritises aggressive performance (making it woke) The problem is not "oh, trans people exist,…

> B) ineffective at changing any Bud drinker's mind on trans people, because it prioritises aggressive performance (making it woke) Really? Like seriously, this is your argument? I just watched the commercial and it was the most bland safe commercial possible.

The act of taking a beer with a strong existing brand that's popular among a mixed demographic that skews slightly Republican, and then marketing it with a "bland safe commercial" that intentionally uses a transwoman as the ambassador for said brand, is pure wishful thinking.

Okay, yes, you and I agree that we're not offended by the ad and it's not going to change our beer-drinking habits. We are not the only people on this earth.

The performance and aggression come from this silly dance where I say "if it caused impactful boycotts against the brand and made marketing departments afraid of using transpeople in ads, then despite my opinions it was neither bland nor safe" and then you say "but my opinion is that it should have been bland and safe". We don't live in that world. We should not stick our heads in the sand and pretend we live in that world, nor should we lash out at the world for failing us. We should learn from the failure of the campaign to achieve either commercial or activist success.

Is "please don't do activism when it's obviously going to be counterproductive" so ridiculous to you?

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My reading of the author's viewpoint is that there are a lot of people in leadership positions in the tech world who would have previously recognized the author's talent and supported them, but would now form a negative opinion of them, regardless of their experience. These people would no longer give them the opportunity they gave them previously.

I think good leaders recognize people like the author simply have an additional life burden that they both choose and need to fight against and uphill. Additionally, those fights will ebb and flow unpredictably, possibly becoming too much of a burden for them at unpredictable times. If this is what you mean by negative opinion, then I agree. But I really don't think good leaders will take it out on them personally or…

"I really don't think good leaders will take it out on them personally"

This feels like the beginning of a "no true scotsman" fallacy. The question is not what a "good leader" does, the question is what this person's experience will be with the people they actually encounter.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who “vilifies immigrants”? President Trump is married to an immigrant, as is Vice President Vance. And many of Trumps advisors are immigrants. And he has repeatedly said he wants America to attract the best people from around the world. You mean he vilified illegal immigrants specifically. That’s fair, he did. But he’s not obligated to speak kindly about people who flout our laws. > Is the republican party full of br…

He's not obligated to do anything, man, but I can point at what he does and call it fascism. I know you may struggle with this because the American education system is awful, but if you pay a tiny fraction of attention to what American senators are like, you'll come to know that in a fistfight or a battle of the wits there is a non-zero number of senators that Biden could beat. This is not a Red vs Blue issue, as sim…

[deleted]

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#667
post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the definition pg gives in the first two paragraphs of what a prig with, which is why I suggested you reread past that section. As OP said, DEI initiatives are regularly hollow and performative. Re: dongle gate and the other hypotheticals, sure, not great, I agree enforcing arbitrary rules isn't good for society, and we really gain nothing. Let's look at this essay critically, and let's not doing any leg…

First, let me say that your comment is thoughtful and makes many good points, and it lacks so many of the strawman arguments that some others have laid out. Thank you for that. That said… > Do you think that men were going around in the 80s accusing professors of sexual harassment? Yes. I will be sure to tell my roommate from college that you don’t think he exists. > So who was misusing this? Basically no one. Who wa…

Thats a good call out, I was definitely being hyperbolic re: no one was misusing the expanded title IX definitions, and I appreciate the anecdata, since you're right that I was not alive back then and so don't have a grasp of exactly what it was like. I trust you that it happened back then, and I have also seen similar situations happen now.

> I imagine that a lot of these cases are not related to being a woman — it’s just general shithead behavior

I agree, a lot of these cases are just shithead behavior, but a lot of them are not, and were overtly sexual in nature (though not direct, but maybe thats up to interpretation), or just overtly sexist. E.g. discussing sexual fantasies or their ongoing sexual escapades, commenting on bodies in a sexual manner that may not be an advance but instead negative in nature etc. But I would agree even within that, title IX may sometimes be overkill, and I've said that to friends and peers myself.

But this exchange touches upon why I still think PGs essay is not worth a charitable read, and just overall more or less harmful. We both have anecdata about correct and incorrect uses of title IX, ways that title IX could be better, etc. How society should treat this and other issues relating to class and abuses of power is an important discussion to have and should be ongoing. What PG is doing is claiming that changes to title IX (along with his other examples of wokeness/priggishness) are in conflict with "truth":

>Surely if truth should prevail anywhere, it should be in universities; that's supposed to be their specialty; but for decades starting in the late 1980s the politically correct tried to pretend this conflict didn't exist.

Which, given your anecdata, is sometimes a fair assessment, and given mine, sometimes unfair. But PG does not allow this nuance in his arguments, and completely disregards the problems any of his examples were trying to treat in the first place. In fact he claims that the thought process that leads to these changes causes disaster, and need to be stopped.

So PG is not directly arguing whether or not the 1980s title IX change was effective in its goals, but instead arguing that the type of thought that lead to that change (and others) simply needs to be stopped entirely. There is no allowance in his argument to affect change, with a deft touch or otherwise, to these societal issues. The only change he suggests are ways to stop or tune out those trying to solve these issues.

Contrast that with Adrienne maree brown's essay https://adriennemareebrown.net/2018/05/10/we-will-not-cancel... Although a different type of writing for a different crowd, it also acknowledges that cancel culture (or wokeness, priggishness, whatever) is harmful and must come to an end, but acknowledges that the problems that have spawned it are real and still need to be fixed.

> We must all do our work. Be accountable and go heal, simultaneously, continuously. It’s never too late.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#668

[flagged]

If it's not meant to be a snarky attack or insult, how is it supposed to be meant? Is it so unthinkable to you that someone's spouse could support them transitioning? That reads like projection, maybe, to me.

It's not unthinkable, but in practise there's usually strong pressure in play: sunk cost fallacy, children to support, the threat of social ostracism. This is mostly true for wives rather than husbands because of female socialisation (this is sadly where gender actually becomes relevant!).

As the author himself says: "It turns out that I like women so much I’d like to be one of them"

That's not how sex works. I like women a lot too: liking them a lot doesn't mean you want to be one, that's called autogynephilia and can be treated with talking therapy.

However if it's a true expression of his attitudes and preferences then perhaps if his wife decided to masculinise her appearance e.g. injecting testosterone to deeper her voice, cause male-associated health growth, have elective surgical interventions like a double mastectomy, he wouldn't receive it as well as his wife seems to have. That's definitely speculation on my part of course!

To answer your original question about how it's supposed to be meant: it won't matter one jot what any investors he once met may think or not think about his lifestyle choices if he's trying to impose a fantasy on his wife.

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides, the whole bathroom thing is so old hat. You know what I hate in a bathroom? Other people. Of any gender. Thankfully, stalls have doors. I miss the days of Ally McBeal when unisex bathrooms were hip and the future.

Unisex bathrooms mean women get to clean the bathrooms again because men can't be bothered to aim or sit.

You can file that one with the other bathroom myth: cleaning staff knows that the really, really filthy bathrooms are the women's bathrooms¹.

People are (and have) assholes. Hardly an argument against unisex bathrooms.

1: https://www.rsvplive.ie/life/womens-toilets-much-dirtier-men...

Re: I Met Paul Graham Once

#670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re your last paragraph: I feel I'm quite left, but it feels like a lot of these activists are busy trying to make enemies out of everyone, which makes me think "I'll just shut the hell up" and, if I ever get confronted as being a part of the enemy class (I'm a heterosexual male, get the pitchforks!) , I'll just point out, "if you don't want me as your ally, then hey, no worries, I can be your enemy."...

Have you heard of or witnessed someone who was confronted as part of the enemy class just for being a straight male? Where are you going that you need a contingency plan for this situation? Are you expecting this in a work situation, on a campus maybe, or just walking down the street?

During BLM, I've seen rhetoric that said "If you're silent, then you're part of the problem!". Sheesh! Luckily I don't live in that quasi-apartheid country and don't have to speak out and say how guilty I am for taking my privileges for granted.

I support their right to challenge the oppression, but please, don't make me the enemy if I'm minding my own business. Yes, I get that there's tremendous privilege of being able to not be enraged by the issues...

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