Earlier quoted context omitted.
But if someone acts inhuman then it’s justified. Russia’s war crimes are well documented and they started the war. When you are the baddies then expect to be called so.
But that's still too simplistic. It's certainly not fair to say that every single Russian (or non-Russian!) soldier who is or has been in Ukraine is a "baddie". Some are trapped by their circumstances to fight in a war they don't believe in and don't agree with. It's easy to say, "well then they should refuse to fight", but you are not that person, and you don't know their struggles or what they feel they are capable…
I Met Paul Graham Once
421–430 of 860 posts
Re: I Met Paul Graham Once
#422So then what is it about his essay that you find so upsetting?
Re: I Met Paul Graham Once
#423Once upon a time, not that long ago, within my lifetime in fact, being gay was targeted for public abuse the way that transgender people are being targeting now. That has declined as people came to understand that being gay, lesbian, bi is part of how a person is made. Under public pressure, a gay person can act straight or at least act not gay. But it doesn't change who they are, doesn't help anyone around them, and…
It seems to me that prigs, as defined in pg's article, are just jumping on the transgender issue because it's an easy way for them to enforce rules. From my understanding, having read both articles, PG might say that the prigs have chosen to ride the lgbt movement. The problem is not with the lgbt movement itself. Unfortunately, this gives the movement a bad reputation. Some prigs aren't lgbt people at all, but they…
> There was at this time a great backlash against sexual harassment; the mid 1980s were the point when the definition of sexual harassment was expanded from explicit sexual advances to creating a "hostile environment."
> In the first phase of political correctness there were really only three things people got accused of: sexism, racism, and homophobia
Going by the examples pg gives, anyone willing to support women, or LGBT, is a prig. Don't let his abstract theory cloud the rest of the essay. He says it in black and white, his problem is with minorities standing up for themselves.
Re: I Met Paul Graham Once
#424Earlier quoted context omitted.
For sure. I almost included something in my comment about "I guess this is what getting old is like", losing your idealism as you age. But equally, maybe not. If I'd grown up in, I dunno the 60s? I would have witnessed enormous leaps in technological possibility and enormous increases in standards of living, personal freedoms, yadda yadda. In my youth it felt like there was a viable future where tech enabled radical…
I wouldn't call it "losing my idealism," but, rather "understanding that everything is a lot more complex than my simple young mind could deal with." I'm probably more "idealistic" than I have ever been; it's just that I no longer have the silly "Let's just do this one simple thing" attitude. I've just found that getting places is always a lot more difficult than we think. Usually, it's people, and all their messy pe…
Re: I Met Paul Graham Once
#425Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're still in the goodies-vs-baddies mindset. Western media pushes people into that way of thinking but it's the Marvel level view and is wrong. Also, look at all the people who think Russia is the baddies for starting that war, but Israel is the baddies despite not starting its war. That's an arbitrary standard people invented to justify their simply goodie-baddie view. If you apply a different standard to every w…
It’s mostly about willful acts of violence against innocents. This might be a nuance that is too subtle though. Bad acts and bad actors should be called out. Russia is the bad actor in the Ukrainian invasion. Hamas and IDF are bad actors in their conflict.
Sometimes violence is unavoidable and often it will impact innocents as well.
I agree bad acts need to be called out but you're casting too wide of a net and that just leads to a loss of clarity/nuance. Is there any war action that doesn't fall under "willful acts of violence against innocents"? Are we talking about "collateral" damage? Are we talking about the Geneva Convention?
Why is Russia a bad actor? Because they invaded? They claim to have legitimate reasons, security concerns, treatment of ethnic Russians or separatists in Ukraine? What if we side with them on the legitimacy of starting the war, does that change anything?
Re: I Met Paul Graham Once
#426Re: I Met Paul Graham Once
#427There are a lot of things that bother me these days. But particularly some things that are pervasive, unnecessary, habitual amplifiers of disagreement. If someone is going to address extremists on an issue, don't just be anti-extremist. What empty courage is that? Address extremists by pushing the dialog back to the real issue. In this case, treating people who have been denigrated for centuries better. Otherwise, un…
I agree with your premise that there is often an unproductive pendulum-like phenomenon in public debates where interpretations swing from one extreme to the other, making nuanced discussions difficult. However I don't believe that PG's article meant to address the elephant, but rather was a meta-level thesis on how he sees debates being shut down by orthodoxy, and for that he does suggest what he thinks would be a po…
The problem with one-sided criticism of extremism is:
1. It is indistinguishable from the default extreme-vs-extreme debate. So it amplifies stupidity all around.
2. The takeaway is unclear. Are all programs to counterbalance discrimination just evil things from the bottom up.
3. It ignores middle ground. Guess we better give up on being more fair, and benefiting more from societies outcasts, and more fairness in general? It must be anti-capitalist, -technology, -patriotic, or something?
None of that is helpful.
So yes, I would say quite strongly, addressing complex divisive issues requires wide situational awareness, nuance, intellectual humility, curiosity, honesty, and an aim to move discussion away from division and toward solutions.
Not more reactionary communiques.
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A completely different approach would be: these DEI programs are out of hand and creating new problems of their own. Not good. But the status quo they are meant to address isn't good either.
So, here are some thoughts on how we could systematically address harmful discrimination in a way that doesn't forget to be fair to everyone else... And fair to everyone is the point of all this, right?
If anyone might be a useful mentor here, it could be pg, if he steps back and thinks about things more. It fits with his general quest to help startups succeed on all fronts. Wisdom for handling side issues well, professionally, creatively, so they don't keep cropping up as distractions.
Does PG or YC have a sensible practical low-ideological view on ensuring hiring and employee treatment reflects and benefits from diversity, avoiding the pitfalls of unfair discrimination, without creating new ones, and defining diversity to mean ALL of us?
That might take more thought. But it would be well worth a PG post. It is also liable to hit more people FROM ALL SIDES or NO SIDES, as worthy of consideration.
Re: I Met Paul Graham Once
#428Re: I Met Paul Graham Once
#429[flagged]
They were up on stage today with better seating and vantage points than the hard-working civil servants and diplomats who actually care about making the world a better and more peaceful place.
People like PG need regressive policies to keep the gravy train running because the hacking startup thing works less and less over time. Everything you can solve with a computer has been solved. All that’s left is oligarchs consolidating left and right.
Zuck, Cook, Musk, and the rest need to fuck right off.
PG is just another member of the .01% who is an exploiter of labor. His founders who grind and eat ramen to survive are just individual dice rolls for his portfolio.
I know which side of the class war I am on.
Re: I Met Paul Graham Once
#430Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
If you have the time, this long personal story by Lynn Conway about her life might show another relevant perspective. https://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/RetrospectiveT.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170124
In summary, Conway and others conducted a years-long campaign of harassment against psychology professor J. Michael Bailey. This included several attempts to get him fired from his job, a series of vexatious complaints to his licensing board, and - most infamously of all - posting photos online of his children suggesting that he had raped them and asking if his young daughter was "a cock-starved exhibitionist".
It was highly vindictive, highly unhinged behavior. They disagreed with his published work and rather than attempt to refute it, attacked him personally and extensively.