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Reverse Engineering Bambu Connect

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Re: Reverse Engineering Bambu Connect

#181

Post by ErneX »

zanderwohl wrote: post #53
sho_hn wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you buy a Prusa in non-kit form, it's not any harder to unbox or operate, and more reliable, while generally achieving somewhat better results. Without phoning home and while maintaining the software Bambu forked theirs from. A recent review coming to a similar conclusion was Maker Muse' review of bedslingers. It's a channel I respect a lot, because he has over the years relentlessly disclosed emails of companies…

> it's not any harder to unbox or operate I agree with this > and more reliable I emphatically disagree with this. > while generally achieving somewhat better results I agree with this. I'd also like to add that my Prusa Mk3s+ is significantly slower than my P1S. Also, without the MMU it still cost more than my P1S with AMS. Choosing a Prusa is making a philosophical choice, because it's certainly not about convenien…

What are your thoughts on the upcoming Prusa Core One? I was thinking about getting a P1S but with this rug pull I’m not sure anymore.

Re: Reverse Engineering Bambu Connect

#182

Post by btreecat »

mls-pl wrote: post #142
NietTim wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> on the understanding it was reasonably hackable and open I, honestly, have no idea why you thought that. Bambulab has been under fire from the very beginning about not being open at all and not contributing back to the open source community they're build on. I bought one of their printers during black friday too, it took me a long time to get over the fact that it isn't an open printer, and I never want to go back…

And let them be closed-source as long as they give you ability to print without calling home or even without internet connection.

I didn't realize that closed source means you the end user get to dictate how the manufacturer implements features.

Re: Reverse Engineering Bambu Connect

#183

Post by JoshTriplett »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #111
MindSpunk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But look, you want to do 3D printing, 40 hours are just a small initial investment No. None of this crap. I want to 3D print. I don't want to service industrial machinery in my spare time. Why should 3D printing require spending weekends troubleshooting machines just to keep the thing working? I want to print models not play repair technician. Vorons are fantastic printers and a fantastic kit if 3D printing itself…

> Why should 3D printing require spending weekends troubleshooting machines just to keep the thing working? I want to print models not play repair technician. I’m sympathetic to your POV but the reason you should is that’s the price to keep things open. Obviously many people don’t care about that. Fair enough. But then you should be prepared to deal with their shenanigans. Prusa also does things like maintain and dev…

> I’m sympathetic to your POV but the reason you should is that’s the price to keep things open.

No, it's not, and the perception that it is hurts the cause of openness.

Open Source has every ability to be better, to Just Work, to not require constant debugging. Good Open Source systems manage this. The fact that 3D printers apparently have not is the fault of those printers, not any inherent quality of openness.

Re: Reverse Engineering Bambu Connect

#184

Post by JoshTriplett »

iamsaitam wrote: post #144
franga2000 wrote: post #69

I was very against Bambu in the beginning for their lack of proper network (not cloud!) support. Then they added LAN mode and I actually considered getting one. Luckily I was lazy and never got around to it. What the fuck Bambu?? Security, really? Not even HP dares to make that excuse...

HP just straight locks you out of your printer unless you pay ransom every month..

All HP printers still give you the option of paying full price for ink cartridges and owning the printer. The rental model is one they try very hard to steer you into, with lots of dark patterns, but you can still use HP printers with no account and no subscription ink model.

Re: Reverse Engineering Bambu Connect

#185

Post by esskay »

askariwa wrote: post #124
po wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This led to slower device performance without informing users, which is a removal of expected performance functionality. As opposed to the device unexpectedly shutting down due to a degraded battery not being able to push enough energy to support the CPU? They didn't remove expected performance, they prevented crashes which are by definition 0 performance. All Li-ion batteries degrade over time. That's not removing…

Well, they DID remove expected performance by slowing CPU performance, disn't they? People who had bought these iPhones (and not the previous ones) did so also because of the promise of a more powerful CPU, a promise broken by Apple. It is removing a feature (a better CPU) and Apple knew it that's why they did it without informing users.

Just to add, they also got fined by the EU for doing so, so it was ruled to be illegal. Bambu's changes would fall into the same category of altering the product and degrading the experience after its been sold.

Re: Reverse Engineering Bambu Connect

#186

Post by GuB-42 »

bushbaba wrote: post #76
harrall wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Prusa was open and did compete. But for 3D printers that worked out of the box under $1000, Prusa had no real competition itself. The Mk3 came out in 2017 and I swear Prusa just sat on their laurels. I was a Mk3s+ owner (well, still am) and was pretty disappointed how little improved with the Mk4. Bambu’s competition was Prusa and they clearly strived to improve over what Prusa had accomplished.

I wondered if the bamboo was sold for a loss

Bambu Labs printers are not cheap. Even their entry level A1 printer is twice the price of an Ender3.

Sure, it is a better printer, but it is clear that they are going for scale, and most of what makes them better is in the software rather than in using premium hardware.

Re: Reverse Engineering Bambu Connect

#187

Post by esskay »

harrall wrote: post #51
hooverd wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open source didn't compete on quality for price. I could pay 2k plus 40 hours of my time for a Voron or buy something that just works. I think Prusa only put out their CoreXY offering after they realized Bambu was eating their lunch. The Apple model works because people want to print rather than tinker.

Well Prusa was open and did compete. But for 3D printers that worked out of the box under $1000, Prusa had no real competition itself. The Mk3 came out in 2017 and I swear Prusa just sat on their laurels. I was a Mk3s+ owner (well, still am) and was pretty disappointed how little improved with the Mk4. Bambu’s competition was Prusa and they clearly strived to improve over what Prusa had accomplished.

The problem is even with Prusas recent efforts to catch up with the Core One, it's expensive, and they still dont have a viable answer to the AMS. The MMU is still a hot mess, requires tinkering, isn't stable and overall just doesnt come close to an out of the box experience.

They still seem to be thinking the primary audience of 3d printers is people who tinker. It's not been that way for a long time. People just want to be able to unbox, plug it in and print. The second you add in the "oh just spend 5 hours tweaking this spaghetti mess of an MMU" you've lost them.

Re: Reverse Engineering Bambu Connect

#188

Post by hn8726 »

imtringued wrote: post #106
wongarsu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They disrupted the 3d printer market with printers that just work out-of-the-box at at price points where you typically only get enthusiast products that require a lot of tinkering. A lot of their business model is seemingly based on making long-term sales from consumables. Their solution for multi-color printing is more convenient to use with filament sold by them because they embed information about the filament on…

Bambu Lab filament pricing is very similar to Sunlu pricing if you purchase the same minimum quantities as Sunlu, but Bambu Lab has a wider variety of filament that people actually want. The only thing that really helps them make more money is wasteful multi-color printing.

Reportedly it's Sunlu who's supplying filament for Bambu. But Bambu's version still has RFID tags which make it much easier to work with multicolor.

> The only thing that really helps them make more money is wasteful multi-color printing.

They're slow to make improvements in this area, but they recently introduced some options to reduce the waste, like longer retraction before the color change. Plus as a user you can reduce the waste further by tuning flushing amounts, and you're left with the waste inherent to single-extruder multicolor printing.

Overall yes multicolor can be wasteful, but to me it's impressive that it exists in the first place

Re: Reverse Engineering Bambu Connect

#189

Post by esskay »

bushbaba wrote: post #76
harrall wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Prusa was open and did compete. But for 3D printers that worked out of the box under $1000, Prusa had no real competition itself. The Mk3 came out in 2017 and I swear Prusa just sat on their laurels. I was a Mk3s+ owner (well, still am) and was pretty disappointed how little improved with the Mk4. Bambu’s competition was Prusa and they clearly strived to improve over what Prusa had accomplished.

I wondered if the bamboo was sold for a loss

initially maybe but the way the printers are built makes for cheap mass production. Theres no special sauce in the hardware, it's all low cost off the shelf stuff, it's just optimised very well.

Re: Reverse Engineering Bambu Connect

#190

Post by Filligree »

DrBenCarson wrote: post #80
jopsen wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are regular printers that bad, if buy brother? I bought a B/W laser printer and have been generally impressed with the lack of BS that came a long with it. It did ask for toner once, so I bought something from a third-party.

Yep laser printers are the equivalent of modern CoreXY printers with solid auto calibration

Could you name one? Other than the X1. I think I might be in the market for a new printer, but I don’t want to lose quality.
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