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UK's hardware talent is being wasted

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Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#571

Post by vladms »

CalRobert wrote: post #256
nicoburns wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don’t believe and can’t even imagine that more is possible. And/or don't think that more is better/desirable. I wouldn't consider myself working class, but I was definitely raised with the idea that making obscene amounts of money is actually pretty selfish/immoral and not something one ought to strive for. That doesn't preclude going into business. But it is pretty antithetical to the VC funding model and the crea…

But we're not talking about obscene amounts of money. Just making enough to have some savings so you can do things like a career break or retire early is discouraged (and mostly impossible). Europe wants you to work, and keep working, forever.

Considering the differences in living prices in major capitals and other cities, I would claim you can do that (career break/retire early) even today in multiple countries in Europe.

But that would mostly mean changing places. If you go and work 10-15 years in an expensive/high pay city, you could retire in a less expensive city.

On the other hand if you expect that everything will be as when you were working (place, expenses, etc.), I am not sure it is the case even in the US for early retirements ...

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#572

Post by tomhoward »

zipy124 wrote: post #558
tomhoward wrote: post #519

I don’t think it’s just a UK thing, or that it’s much easier to start a hardware startup in the USA. I think it’s more that the bar for getting a hardware startup off the ground is much higher than a software startup - everywhere in the world. Personally I’ve been trying to self-fund and bootstrap a hardware startup (based in Australia but I’m reasonably well connected in Silicon Valley as I’m a YC alum). I’ve had pl…

The largest problem I see is shipping times. If I need to download a new software "part" (library or other), the shipping time is the download time, nearly instant. If I need new hardware pieces, its either next day shipping, a few days by air-freight or three weeks on a boat from china. This limits prototype turnover time, and means iterating quick is much harder. Finally you have the problem that hardware is expens…

That’s a big part of it. But mostly it’s that your dev+deploy+evaluate cycle is so much slower. With web software you can write a feature or bug-fix and push to prod in minutes - and repeat that many times a day. With hardware each equivalent cycle is weeks or months (especially in my vertical - farms).

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#573

Post by papichulo2023 »

sandermvanvliet wrote: post #294
CalRobert wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know any equivalent for the Netherlands by any chance? Everything I see is tiny amounts.

There is the SeedCapital route: https://english.rvo.nl/subsidies-financing/seed-capital

Isnt this just a private loan?

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#574

Post by mgaunard »

IshKebab wrote: post #526
mgaunard wrote: post #507

The comparison of salaries doesn't necessarily make sense there. Cost of life in the UK is only high in London, and remains lower than California. I remember working as a software engineer on £32k, and I could still afford a 3-bedroom house with a garden, garage and a car.

That must have been a very long time ago!

10 years ago.

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#575

Post by constantcrying »

paganel wrote: post #450
graemep wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but my point is that the France, Germany, and other comparable European economies have the same or similar problems. The UK is not some exception, it is a typical western economy. The US is an outlier (doing better). > that includes part of their beloved NHS A more severe problem is that the NHS was debt funded (mostly through off balance sheet debt) in the 2000s. The government kept their promise not to inc…

Germany was quite fine until a couple of years ago, mostly thanks to very cheap Russian gas. About France I agree, they have the same problems as the Brits do, maybe because they lost access to cheap African mineral resources as a result of Francafrique [1] ending? I couldn't tell, to be honest. But at the end of the day the point remains that if you want to have a world-beating economy you need to have access to rel…

Germany's number one economic problem is energy costs. Blaming the increase on Russian gas hits only a tiny slice of the problem.

The real problem is a completely botched "energy transition", which deprecated very important energy sectors, which were still absolutely needed.

To be clear, I am in favor of renewables. One benefit is that they create independence from the whims of the US and Russia. Nevertheless the transition has been completely botched, driving up energy costs and making certain industries essentially non-viable.

The government focused on two things, increasing renewable peak production and deprecating nuclear. What they completely neglected is how to actually have a sustainable grid, which can cheaply deliver energy even with little sunshine and little wind. What was needed was easily regulated power (e.g. nuclear) and sufficient storage. Nuclear was completely abandoned and most government incentives were focused on increasing peak production, neglecting the storage of energy.

This is obviously harmful to the German industry, which is electricity heavy. This problem has also been consistently ignored and actively made worse in recent years, by continuing to shut down nuclear plants, even if it was clear that more energy production was needed.

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#576

Post by eunos »

robocat wrote: post #138
tjpnz wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The salaries in Japan arent great honestly, but mine, the quality of life and how far my money goes is so much better than if I lived back at the UK. In a similar situation to you apparently. Every couple of years I'll take a look at UK as well as NZ and Aus (all places I can legally work) and Japan is still the better option. Even with the yen situation and despite all the doom and gloom others write online, life i…

As an NZer, jobs in Australia pay wayyyy better and everyone here seems to agree that the lifestyle is better there. Lots of NZers move to Oz to improve their life and opportunities. The NZ economy isn't doing great. I'm personally worried that demographics and an incoming Labour government will mean that if you have saved for your retirement our next government will simply tax your savings until you have nothing (th…

> Australia pay wayyyy better

well having a relatively small population and bountiful natural resources do great wonder.

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#577

Post by whiplash451 »

zipy124 wrote: post #558
tomhoward wrote: post #519

I don’t think it’s just a UK thing, or that it’s much easier to start a hardware startup in the USA. I think it’s more that the bar for getting a hardware startup off the ground is much higher than a software startup - everywhere in the world. Personally I’ve been trying to self-fund and bootstrap a hardware startup (based in Australia but I’m reasonably well connected in Silicon Valley as I’m a YC alum). I’ve had pl…

The largest problem I see is shipping times. If I need to download a new software "part" (library or other), the shipping time is the download time, nearly instant. If I need new hardware pieces, its either next day shipping, a few days by air-freight or three weeks on a boat from china. This limits prototype turnover time, and means iterating quick is much harder. Finally you have the problem that hardware is expens…

True but that reality applies to all your competitors. Your investors should care about your performance relative to the market.

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#578

Post by pydry »

tome wrote: post #551
pydry wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always found it interesting that a lot of economists thought that a rising tide lifting all boats could be characterized as a "disease".

Personally I'd prefer it if good quality healthcare were cheaply available to all without having to be bottleneck on expensive-and-time-consuming-to-train human labour, even if it did mean that the 0.5% of the population that are doctors might end up working differently (and not necessarily for less -- it's not as though the industrial revolution has impoverished society).

That's not the same issue at all though.

A waiter from the early 19th century will have much the same productivity as now. Doctors (we would hope) could be more productive by, say, not using bloodletting and leeches to heal people.

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#579

Post by James_K »

DaedPsyker wrote: post #547
smartties wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be the case for most European countries, particularly here in France. We’re experiencing stagnation, or perhaps even a decline. Launching a product in Europe is significantly more challenging due to the market’s high fragmentation. I don’t have much hope for the future of tech companies in Europe.

A few here have commented on different aspects, and they have their part to play but I agree with you, market fragmentation is the scale killer. From an outside perspective it might appear like Europe is a true single market like the US but it isn't. Scaling to a European level isn't impossible but it is difficult. Some of that will just be difficult to do anything about, language, different cultures, etc. On the pol…

Market fragmentation is a measurable phenomenon, as far as a language goes. The language barrier is just the cost of a translator. Is that cost prohibitively high in Europe? I hear a lot of explanations of why Europe has fewer tech companies than America, but they are almost never backed by statistics. The most obvious answer continues to be the Bretton Woods system, by which large amounts of money are funnelled into America, seemingly without reason. China inverts this flow by debasing its currency, and Europe does not.

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#580

Post by lobochrome »

vv_ wrote: post #366
lobochrome wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well - care to be joined by the Germans? It's the reason I am now living in Japan...

How did you get a job in Japan? What were the requirements?

Speaking the language helps. Also working in a highly specialized field.
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