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UK's hardware talent is being wasted

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Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#251

Post by coopierez »

bboygravity wrote: post #176
tidenly wrote: post #89

I left the UK after graduating at 21, fully intending to come back within a couple of years. Its weird watching it from the outside for 10 years waiting for a "good time" to move back and realizing that time isn't coming more and more each year. The salaries in Japan arent great honestly, but mine, the quality of life and how far my money goes is so much better than if I lived back at the UK. Every time I go back it…

IMO the UK should look at what Singapore did and maybe learn from that. There's really no excuse for a country like the UK other than ordinary plain and simple mis-management from the top. Singapore did not depend on neighboring countries to climb out of 3rd world poverty. To name an example.

The UK cannot just "be Singapore". What happened in Singapore was a specific, unrepeatable combination of its geography, the needs of the region, the size of the country, and the culture.

To maintain its wealth today, Singapore relies on a large underclass of underpaid non-citizens. Around 40% of the country are non-citizens.

In addition, London sort of has its own Singapore(s) in the form of the City and Canary Wharf. That's great for those who work there, but it's not feasible for a country of nearly 70 million for everyone to just work in finance.

Final comment:

> Singapore did not depend on neighboring countries to climb out of 3rd world poverty

Singapore's wealth is built on trade and foreign investment. To assume that without other countries it would be equally successful is absurd.

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#252

Post by iLoveOncall »

incog_nit0 wrote: post #143

It's not just in the hardware sector, it's across the board. My (American) wife moved to London years ago and was a manager in a prestigious London museum overseeing 60 people. She has over 20 years experience in some of our top museums and her salary in 2023 was a paltry £30k. We just moved to the US and within a couple of months she has a job in museums here but now paying 2.3x the salary (converted back to £) and…

If your wife used to manage 60 people and now manages a third of that, it seems like her talent is being wasted NOW, not when she was in the UK.

I'll add that 70K is nothing to write home about in the US, especially if you're not in a low COL state.

The article is about people not going in the field that they're talented at, because it's low paid. Clearly it doesn't apply to your wife which is talented and went in the low paid field.

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#253

Post by Cumpiler69 »

mrtksn wrote: post #196
bowsamic wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it’s not necessarily a good thing. In Europe we are traditionalists and we retain a lot of spirit (Geist) by not striving for pure progress

Yes, there are advantages of a stable and well functioning systems that don't have disruptors and we indeed benefit of it as having good lives but unfortunately this can't last as those who go hard on progress and tear down everything and rebuilding again will eventually get ahead on everything and won't let us just be as we now see with US billionaires having impact over Europe. Americans feel more pain but are also…

>Yes, there are advantages of a stable and well functioning systems

Current EU is definitely not a stable and well functioning system. Look at economic conditions, political outcomes, illegal immigration, wealth inequality, societal and political trust, homelessness rates, birth rates, free speech suppression, welfare austerity, etc Everything has been going downhill since the 2008 crash. It's a powder keg.

>they are trying to become a bit more like Europe with the race and class based politics holding roots.

What are you on about? Europe doesn't have much race based politics, that's a thing America keeps pushing.

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#254

Post by makingstuffs »

CalRobert wrote: post #219
monero-xmr wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s exhausting trying to explain this to American leftists. They believe the UK / EU is rich, their healthcare is amazing and “free”, and no one has to work more than 35 hours a week. They visit London and Paris once in 10 years for vacation and think they understand the economic order.

Ah yes, my fabulous Dutch healthcare basically consisting of being told "you're fine" and overpriced acetaminophen.

Sounds like the non-existent British NHS where getting an appointment to see a doctor is about as likely as meeting the Loch Ness Monster for a spot of tea and crumpets.

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#255

Post by samastur »

Xmd5a wrote: post #164
nine_k wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, "winning" as in not being completely destroyed, occupied, and maybe even enslaved. Check out what Poland looked like in 1940 when it lost, or what Germany looked like in 1945, or, well, 1949. USSR was also terribly battered by WWII, and its leadership was not highly competent either; I'd say both parameters were much worse than UK's. But it managed to remain a large empire with a high economic potential, and UK…

>USSR was also terribly battered by WWII, and its leadership was not highly competent either The USSR moved all its industry eastward, as the German army advanced, waiting for the very last moment to do so. Quite an incredible feat that allowed them to beat Germany at industrial efficiency and secure victory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_in_the_Soviet_Union Here's an analysis of the mechanisms underpinnin…

This is a myth they tell themselves. USSR won by incredible amounts of American supplied material.

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#256

Post by CalRobert »

nicoburns wrote: post #220
mrtksn wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree, the problem in Europe is not regulations or anything like that - it is a mindset issue. It is one of things that europeans can learn from Americans. My hypothesis is that this is a combination of old money and class consciousness. In other words, the rich are risk averse because all they care is preserving their wealth and the working class don’t believe and can’t even imagine that more is possible.

> don’t believe and can’t even imagine that more is possible. And/or don't think that more is better/desirable. I wouldn't consider myself working class, but I was definitely raised with the idea that making obscene amounts of money is actually pretty selfish/immoral and not something one ought to strive for. That doesn't preclude going into business. But it is pretty antithetical to the VC funding model and the crea…

But we're not talking about obscene amounts of money. Just making enough to have some savings so you can do things like a career break or retire early is discouraged (and mostly impossible). Europe wants you to work, and keep working, forever.

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#257

Post by iLoveOncall »

realusername wrote: post #118
smartties wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be the case for most European countries, particularly here in France. We’re experiencing stagnation, or perhaps even a decline. Launching a product in Europe is significantly more challenging due to the market’s high fragmentation. I don’t have much hope for the future of tech companies in Europe.

I lived and worked in both countries and I feel like the UK is in a worse situation than France nowadays. It's hard to admit for French citizens but the EU significantly props up the French economy and reduces the structural issues of the country.

I have also lived in both and I agree with you. The UK is a lot worse.

At least France has some things going for it, healthcare is still good, unemployment benefits are good, etc.

The UK has literally nothing to show for.

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#258

Post by mrtksn »

Cumpiler69 wrote: post #253
mrtksn wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there are advantages of a stable and well functioning systems that don't have disruptors and we indeed benefit of it as having good lives but unfortunately this can't last as those who go hard on progress and tear down everything and rebuilding again will eventually get ahead on everything and won't let us just be as we now see with US billionaires having impact over Europe. Americans feel more pain but are also…

>Yes, there are advantages of a stable and well functioning systems Current EU is definitely not a stable and well functioning system. Look at economic conditions, political outcomes, illegal immigration, wealth inequality, societal and political trust, homelessness rates, birth rates, free speech suppression, welfare austerity, etc Everything has been going downhill since the 2008 crash. It's a powder keg. >they are…

Yeah right, Reform AFD Rassemblement national Fratelli d'Italia and other risings stars have nothing to do with race and even if they do it's Americans behind it.

Everyone knows that Europeans are much more racist than Americans, it's just that we are much less explicit about it and its issues are different than the issues in the USA.

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#259

Post by zipy124 »

Cumpiler69 wrote: post #245
bowsamic wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also even the safe job wage in the UK is perhaps only 2/3 of in Germany for example

What do you mean by that?

He means a safe wage job pays a third less in the UK than Germany.

Not sure if it's true so let's look at some stats: Germany median for software engineer: €66,000 United kingdom median: €58,000

Note depending on source, these numbers both vary broadly within the same range, but with Germany salaries being about 10-15% higher on most sources, so nowhere near the figure claimed.

Re: UK's hardware talent is being wasted

#260

Post by Cumpiler69 »

mrtksn wrote: post #159
r_thambapillai wrote: post #51

As a Brit, when I was raising the seed round for my startup, UK and European VCs would consistently try to haggle you down on price while the American VC's were exclusively focussed on trying to figure out whether this could be a billion dollar business or not (in the end we raised a $5m seed led by Spark, and have done extremely well and raised more since). The UK lost Deep Mind - which could have been OpenAI!! -- t…

Completely agree, the problem in Europe is not regulations or anything like that - it is a mindset issue. It is one of things that europeans can learn from Americans. My hypothesis is that this is a combination of old money and class consciousness. In other words, the rich are risk averse because all they care is preserving their wealth and the working class don’t believe and can’t even imagine that more is possible.

>Completely agree, the problem in Europe is not regulations or anything like that - it is a mindset issue.

You can change mindsets with regulations that reward taking risks in new businesses/innovations, and punish rent seeking and sitting on inherited real estate for example.

But as long as EUrope is focused on maintaining the status quo of boomers and gentrified dynasties of billionaires that you probably played against in Assassins' Creed, nothing will change.

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