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BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

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Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#161

Post by JPKab »

king_jester wrote: post #99
vijayr wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand where the GP is coming from. Teaching kids to code is an absolutely nice thing to do. But segregating based on color or gender or caste is never a good idea. What if a poor white or Asian or Hispanic kid wants to join this class? They'll be turned away? To give an example: India is a deeply divided society, based on caste/religion etc. In many educational institutions, huge percentage of seats are reserv…

> But segregating based on color or gender or caste is never a good idea. What if a poor white or Asian or Hispanic kid wants to join this class? Charities are free to focus on where the most need is based on the limited resources they have. There is a significant lack of women of color in US tech circles, so there is nothing wrong with a charity targeting that. Charity by definition won't be able to focus on everyon…

The assumption that people face discrimination because of race is ham fisted and wrong. People face discrimination in the U.S. largely because of their CULTURE. Dress the wrong way, speak in the wrong dialect (whether that is an Appalachian dialect or a Memphis African American dialect) at a job interview, and you are likely to be discriminated against.

A huge number of black Americans in the U.S. face discrimination because they grew up in a culture which affects the way that they dress, speak, and act. The Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson has a fascinating book called Disintegration about the various cultures present in the African American population in the United States. The particular culture of African Americans that faces the huge barriers of discrimination, bad schools, and bad upbringing are referred to in his book as "the Abandoned." As a white American who grew up in a trailer park in a mostly black area of the rural south, I happen to have a knowledge that most white Americans I encounter don't SEEM to have. And that is that the vast majority of discrimination against black americans is selectively directed against the "Abandoned", mainly in a passive, rather than active way. It is much more insidious in that sense.

I bring this up because too often I see whites who simply don't know anything other than what they learned in a college class say that "blacks" face barriers. It is much, much more complex than that. Here's a quote from a New York Times book review of Robinson's work:

"During the past four decades, Robinson persuasively argues, black America has splintered into four subgroups: the Transcendent elite; the Mainstream middle class, which now accounts for a majority of black Americans; an Emergent community made up of mixed-race families and black immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean; and the Abandoned, a large and growing underclass concentrated in the inner cities and depressed pockets of the rural South."

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#162

Post by king_jester »

JPKab wrote: post #161
king_jester wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But segregating based on color or gender or caste is never a good idea. What if a poor white or Asian or Hispanic kid wants to join this class? Charities are free to focus on where the most need is based on the limited resources they have. There is a significant lack of women of color in US tech circles, so there is nothing wrong with a charity targeting that. Charity by definition won't be able to focus on everyon…

The assumption that people face discrimination because of race is ham fisted and wrong. People face discrimination in the U.S. largely because of their CULTURE. Dress the wrong way, speak in the wrong dialect (whether that is an Appalachian dialect or a Memphis African American dialect) at a job interview, and you are likely to be discriminated against. A huge number of black Americans in the U.S. face discrimination…

> The assumption that people face discrimination because of race is ham fisted and wrong. People face discrimination in the U.S. largely because of their CULTURE.

Ah of course, if only people acted more white they wouldn't have all these problems! /s

Improving ones class status or conforming to mainstream, white ideas about acceptable culture do not in any way stop or erase racism. Systemic and institutional racism affects all people of color. That some have different experiences or are affected differently is to be expected given how racism intersects with class and gender.

> As a white American who grew up in a trailer park in a mostly black area of the rural south, I happen to have a knowledge that most white Americans I encounter don't SEEM to have

You definitely may have a different experience compared to other white people, but you aren't black and don't live that experience, this factoid isn't relevant. By definition you cannot claim to know black experience first hand because you are not black.

> And that is that the vast majority of discrimination against black americans is selectively directed against the "Abandoned", mainly in a passive, rather than active way.

I don't dispute that the most marginalized people are the most affected by racism, classism, etc. However, that doesn't mean that racism doesn't affect people of color who have class privileges.

BlackGirlsCode is a program directly targeted at the people you call "Abandoned" (get way to establish other-ness by not calling them people and implying that at some point these people were cared for by the mainstream). The whole reason why this program exists in the first place is to help people who have been hit the hardest by racism, classism, and gender discrimination.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#163

Post by JPKab »

king_jester wrote: post #162
JPKab wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The assumption that people face discrimination because of race is ham fisted and wrong. People face discrimination in the U.S. largely because of their CULTURE. Dress the wrong way, speak in the wrong dialect (whether that is an Appalachian dialect or a Memphis African American dialect) at a job interview, and you are likely to be discriminated against. A huge number of black Americans in the U.S. face discrimination…

> The assumption that people face discrimination because of race is ham fisted and wrong. People face discrimination in the U.S. largely because of their CULTURE. Ah of course, if only people acted more white they wouldn't have all these problems! /s Improving ones class status or conforming to mainstream, white ideas about acceptable culture do not in any way stop or erase racism. Systemic and institutional racism a…

'Abandoned' is Eugene Robinson's term. He is a famous, left of center political commentator and writer for the Washington Post. He is black, and if you had any idea of what you were talking about, you would realize that 'Abandoned' doesn't reference them being taken care of by the mainstream at one point. It references the fact that the 'white flight' of the 1950's - 70's is a misnomer. It was really a middle class flight from cities, but the black middle class was delayed in their "abandoning" the inner cities due to racist housing discrimination policies in white suburbs. Once these were taken away in the 60's, the black middle class also fled the cities.

"Ah of course, if only people acted more white they wouldn't have all these problems"

This statement is exactly what I'm talking about. As if there is one 'white' culture in America. There isn't. I speak in a different manner at work than I do at home. My native dialect is not considered acceptable in business. I don't say y'all or ain't, and I shorten my words into the Anglo-Saxon, northeastern dialect that is the de-facto business standard English of the U.S. If I don't, I suffer the consequences. 'White' is a race, not a culture. But again, you completely miss this. I guess you also think that a black person who speaks in a north-eastern anglo-saxon dialect is 'acting white' correct? This is such bullshit, and it is the epitome of a person who learned about culture in a classroom, rather than living in a truly integrated environment.

My best friend growing up was victimized (physically attacked) by 'Abandoned' kids because he did well in school and 'acted white.'(there words, not mine) Nice to see this type of thinking isn't limited to just them. /s

The majority of white people I encounter who claim to be multicultural have never even spent the night under the roof of a person of color, let alone attended churches or social gatherings to truly understand that its about culture, not race.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#164

Post by king_jester »

JPKab wrote: post #163
king_jester wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The assumption that people face discrimination because of race is ham fisted and wrong. People face discrimination in the U.S. largely because of their CULTURE. Ah of course, if only people acted more white they wouldn't have all these problems! /s Improving ones class status or conforming to mainstream, white ideas about acceptable culture do not in any way stop or erase racism. Systemic and institutional racism a…

'Abandoned' is Eugene Robinson's term. He is a famous, left of center political commentator and writer for the Washington Post. He is black, and if you had any idea of what you were talking about, you would realize that 'Abandoned' doesn't reference them being taken care of by the mainstream at one point. It references the fact that the 'white flight' of the 1950's - 70's is a misnomer. It was really a middle class f…

> It was really a middle class flight from cities, but the black middle class was delayed in their "abandoning" the inner cities due to racist housing discrimination policies in white suburbs. Once these were taken away in the 60's, the black middle class also fled the cities.

You are right that white flight is really a class flight, but we should be clear that whites overwhelmingly benefited from this movement for a variety of reasons, including their easier access to better economic status and the enactment of racist laws that prohibited non-whites from participating in moving to the suburbs.

However, calling people "abandoned" still doesn't make any sense. How can a group of people be abandoned if they were never included in the mainstream in the first place? In a capitalist economy like the US, the middle class depends on the poor to continue to function and that kind of classism is a big part of our society. Ultimately all that matters is that people of color still face many barriers and oppressions, micro and macro, every day and those oppressions are intersectional with race, gender, and class, among other things.

> This statement is exactly what I'm talking about. As if there is one 'white' culture in America.

In the US, there IS only one mainstream culture and it places whiteness above other races. When I say white culture, I do not strictly mean the various cultures and histories of lightly skinned people. Rather, I'm talking about mainstream American culture: white, hetero-normative, imperialist, capitalist, and patriarchal enterprise.

> My best friend growing up was victimized (physically attacked) by 'Abandoned' kids because he did well in school and 'acted white.'(there words, not mine) Nice to see this type of thinking isn't limited to just them. /s

I'm sorry that this happened to your friend, but if you are insinuating that calling point problematic statements is the same as physically beating someone, you are saying that problematic shit is above criticism.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#165

Post by suprheavn »

I volunteered for BGC a few months ago and I am a white woman. The problem that this group is trying to solve can be summed up in the fact that there were plenty of black girls learning how to code, but not plenty of black women teaching them. I remember that we had two white women, one Asian woman, three white men, and two black women volunteering total. So I guess it's great that the internet community is so intent on over analyzing everything, but I'm pretty sure all of us would like to be able to teach any child how to code. However, Black Girls Code is clearly better at marketing themselves than all the other groups that I've never heard of.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#166

Post by alxp »

mindcrime wrote: post #102
colmvp wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders?' Do white guys need more help in America? Statistically, white men have a higher chance at being well... anything. Actor. Model. CEOs. Executives. Managers. Interracial marriages. Politicians. Lack of racial profiling. White men getting worked up about this is like rich people getting worked up ab…

Do white guys need more help in America? Some do, yes. Depending on whether your concern is for actual living, breathing individuals, or for statistics and metadata about some collective. Sure, it's easy to talk about how white men have "privilege" and are "over-represented" in some group, etc., etc., ad infinitum. But somewhere, out there, is a poor white male kid, growing up in some impoverished neighborhood, whose…

No need for scare quotes around "privilege" and "over-represented". These are real things that you can't hand-wave away for the sake of your theoretical exception.
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