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Amazon's AI crawler is making my Git server unstable

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Re: Amazon's AI crawler is making my Git server unstable

#122
How many TB is your repo?

Do they keep retrieving the same data from the same links over and over and over again, like stuck in a forever loop, that runs week after week?

Or are they crawling your site at a hype aggressive way but getting more and more data? So it may tea them last say 2 days to crawl over it and then they go away?

Re: Amazon's AI crawler is making my Git server unstable

#124

I’m surprised everyone else’s servers are struggling to handle a couple of bot scrapes. I run a couple of public facing websites on a NUC and it just… chugs along? This is also amidst the constant barrage of OSINT attempts at my IP.

Depends on what you are hosting. I found that source code repository viewers in particular (OP mentions Gitea, but I have seen it with others as well) are really troublesome: Each and every commit that exists in your repository can potentially cause dozens if not hundres of new unique pages to exist (diff against previous version, diff against current version, show file history, show file blame, etc...). Plus many repo viewers of them take this information directly from the source repository without much caching involved, as it seems. This is different from typical blogging or forum software, which is often designed to be able to handle really huge websites and thus have strong caching support. So far, nobody expected source code viewers to be so popular that performance could be an issue, but with AI scrapers this is quickly changing.

Re: Amazon's AI crawler is making my Git server unstable

#125

What are the actual rules/laws about scraping? I have a few projects I'd like to do that involve scraping but have always been conscious about respecting the host's servers, plus whether private content is copyrighted. But sounds like AI companies don't give a shit lol. If anyone has a good resource on the subject I'd be grateful!

If you go to a police station and ask them to arrest Amazon for accessing your website too often, will they arrest Amazon, or laugh at you?

While facetious in nature, my point is that people walking around in real brick and mortar locations simply do not care. If you want police to enforce laws, those are the kinds of people that need to care about your problem. Until that occurs, youll have to work around the problem.

Re: Amazon's AI crawler is making my Git server unstable

#126

The best way to fight this would not to block them, that does not cause Amazon/others anything. (clearly). What if instead it was possible to feed the bots clearly damaging and harmfull content? If done on a larger scale, and Amazon discovers the poisoned pills they could have to spend money rooting it out, quick like, and make attempts to stop their bots to ingest it. Of course nobody wants to have that tuff on thei…

> What if instead it was possible to feed the bots clearly damaging and harmfull content?

With all respect, you're completely misunderstanding the scope of AI companies' misbehaviour.

These scrapers already gleefully chow down on CSAM and all other likewise horrible things. OpenAI had some of their Kenyan data-tagging subcontractors quit on them over this. (2023, Time)

The current crop of AI firms do not care about data quality. Only quantity. The only thing you can do to harm them is to hand them 0 bytes.

You would go directly to jail for things even a tenth as bad as Sam Altman has authorized.

Re: Amazon's AI crawler is making my Git server unstable

#127
post #92

I like the solution in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42727510 . Put a link somewhere in your site that no human would visit, disallow it in robots.txt (under a wildcard because apparently OpenAI’s crawler specifically ignores wildcards), and when an IP address visits the link ban it for 24 hours.

I had to deal with some bot activities that used huge address space, and I tried something very similar, when condition confirming bot was detected I banned that IP for 24h but due to amount of IPs involved this did not have any impact on about if traffic my suggestion is to look very closely on headers that you receive (varnishlog in very nice of this and of you stare long enough at then you might stop something tha…

My favorite example of this was how folks fingerprinted the active probes of the Great Firewall of China. It has a large pool of IP addresses to work with (i.e. all ISPs in China), but the TCP timestamps were shared across a small number of probing machines:

"The figure shows that although the probers use thousands of source IP addresses, they cannot be fully independent, because they share a small number of TCP timestamp sequences"

https://censorbib.nymity.ch/pdf/Alice2020a.pdf

Re: Amazon's AI crawler is making my Git server unstable

#128

Probably dumb question, but any enlightenment would be welcome to help me learn: Could this be prevented by having a link that when followed would serve a dynamically generated page that does all of the following: A) insert some fake content outlining the oligarcs more lurid rumours or whichever disinformation you choose to push C) embed links to assets in oligarchs companies so they get hit with some bandwith C) dyn…

Not a crawler writer but have FAFOd with data structures in the past to large career success.

...

The closest you could possibly do with any meaningful influence, is option C, with the general observations of:

1. You'd need to 'randomize' the generated output link

2. You'd also want to maximize cachability of the replayed content to minimize work.

3. Add layers of obfuscation on the frontend side, for instance a 'hidden link (maybe with some prompt fuckery if you are brave) inside the HTML with a random bad link on your normal pages.

4. Randomize parts of the honeypot link pattern. At some point someone monitoring logs/etc will see that it's a loop and blacklist the path.

5. Keep up at 4 and eventually they'll hopefully stop crawling.

---

On the lighter side...

1. do some combination of above but have all honeypot links contain the right words that an LLM will just nope out of for regulatory reasons.

That said, all above will do is minimize pain (except, perhaps ironically, the joke response which will more likely blacklist you but potentially get you on a list or a TLA visit)...

... Most pragmatically, I'd start by suggesting the best option is a combination of nonlinear rate limiting, both on the ramp-up and the ramp-down. That is, the faster requests come in, the more you increment their 'valueToCheckAgainstLimit`. The longer it's been since last request, the more you decrement.

Also pragmatically, if you can extend that to put together even semi-sloppy code to then scan when a request to a junk link that results in a ban immediately results in another IP trying to hit the same request... well ban that IP as soon as you see it, at least for a while.

With the right sort of lookup table, IP Bans can be fairly simple to handle on a software level, although the 'first-time' elbow grease can be a challenge.

Re: Amazon's AI crawler is making my Git server unstable

#129
post #75
post #8

I had this same issue recently. My Forgejo instance started to use 100 % of my home server's CPU as Claude and its AI friends from Meta and Google were hitting the basically infinite links at a high rate. I managed to curtail it with robots.txt and a user agent based blocklist in Caddy, but who knows how long that will work. Whatever happened to courtesy in scraping?

Mind sharing a decent robots.txt and/or user-agent list to block the AI crawlers?

Any of the big chat models should be able to reproduce it :)

Re: Amazon's AI crawler is making my Git server unstable

#130
post #92

I like the solution in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42727510 . Put a link somewhere in your site that no human would visit, disallow it in robots.txt (under a wildcard because apparently OpenAI’s crawler specifically ignores wildcards), and when an IP address visits the link ban it for 24 hours.

I had to deal with some bot activities that used huge address space, and I tried something very similar, when condition confirming bot was detected I banned that IP for 24h but due to amount of IPs involved this did not have any impact on about if traffic my suggestion is to look very closely on headers that you receive (varnishlog in very nice of this and of you stare long enough at then you might stop something tha…

Why work hard… Train a model to recognize the AI bots!
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