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The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

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Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#111

Post by lotsofpulp »

bosie wrote: post #92
lotsofpulp wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric vehicles are not “very” expensive, even in Europe, and it’s a capital expense. That charger is going to be useful for decades to come. And if electric vehicles pencil out in the US to equal cost of gas cars including oil changes and all that, then surely they do in Europe with their higher gas costs.

Can you put numbers to not very expensive? Looking at vw for their ev equivalents, for me personally, it qualifies as very expensive (without subsidies)

I tried to find new gas vs electric car sale prices in a couple European countries, but I couldn’t easily find a reputable source.

With how active European governments are on legislation to curb carbon emissions, I assumed the proposition of a new electric vehicle to a new gas vehicle would be at least as good as the US (over the lifetime of the car, higher initial cost for EV, but lower maintenance costs).

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/europe...

Of course, this only applies to people with a home with a space to park and charge their car, and whose everyday destinations are mostly within an hour.

Edit: looks like small diesel cars are still available in Europe, so taking those as the base option, I can see how an EV would be expensive. This option doesn’t exist in the US, though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1bfhpnl/does_it_ma...

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#112

Post by daft_pink »

Honestly, I think it’s actually the second generation Prius that transformed the auto industry. The first generation was quirky, had poor crash test ratings, and was full of compromises.

The second generation showed that they could produce a sedan with high reliability, a decent sized passenger cabin, high crash test ratings, and very little compromises over a regular car except speed and sell it at a massive scale with incredible gas mileage, lower maintenance costs and great reliability.

I think it also showed that you could build a smaller car, throw in all the technology features and young people would buy it where previously, manufacturers would only put the latest and greatest features on their largest vehicles. For example, if you wanted the latest and greatest features from Mercedes, you would have to buy the S class, so even if you wanted a smaller more efficient car, if you were an early adopter, you had to buy the largest model. I think the Prius was a point where people realized that the youngest people wanted these tech features but they didn’t want a giant car.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#113

Post by frosted-flakes »

lwhsiao wrote: post #64
jgilias wrote: post #36

I sometimes chuckle that most of the cool Lexuses are now Priuses under the hood! But that’s a good thing. I own a Toyota Corolla hybrid myself, and hybrids are one of those things that I can say I’ve completely changed my mind about. I used to dislike the idea of hybrids, because I assumed that the overall system complexity must be higher than either an ICE, or an EV. And I’m a sucker for simple systems, so I though…

Naive question: aren't belts lower maintenance than chains, and don't let last longer? Why doesn't a engine with a chain drive require equal or more replacements?

Unlike most bicycle chains, timung chains are permanently lubricated with filtered oil. Belts are not.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#114

Post by singron »

Aurornis wrote: post #99
Alex3917 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problems with the Prius are basically: - Terrible in snow and ice - No way to defrost your windshield, unless you're already driving - Poor rear window visibility If not for those things it would be great, but unfortunately they've made zero progress on fixing any of the core issues for the last 25 years. The new models definitely do look cooler, and I appreciate that they accelerate faster, but I personally care…

> - Terrible in snow and ice I don’t know what gave you that idea, unless this is a complaint about FWD vs AWD. They do fine around here in snow and ice. Snow and ice performance is primarily (by a wide margin) about the tires. Next is the diffs and/or traction control for keeping both wheels moving when one starts slipping. A Prius on snow tires does about as well as any other common FWD car.

Ours with snow tires does great. Most people probably don't have snow tires though, and they may have tires that perform worse-than-normal like LRR tires or full summer tires.

Snow tires are great on all FWD and are probably way cheaper than buying a new AWD car.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#115

Post by likeabatterycar »

gcanyon wrote: post #19

The new Prius is really good-looking (to my eye at least), especially in person: I don't think the photos (I've seen) do it justice. Fun comparisons to the car Burt Reynolds drove in Smokey and the Bandit: Compared to the 1977 Pontiac Trans Am: - The Prius is as fast 0-60 (~7 seconds) - The Prius has nearly the same top speed (~115 mph) - The Prius is 4x(!) as fuel-efficient (57mpg vs. 12-16mpg) - The Prius has all t…

The Trans Am also had simple analogue controls - including for the heat & AC - while the new Prius has evidently succumbed to the overcomplicated "let's take away buttons" phenomenon.

Also, you're not getting a bride to leave her husband at the altar if you pull up alongside in a Prius. Just sayin'.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#116

Post by dkarl »

Tade0 wrote: post #44
jgilias wrote: post #36

I sometimes chuckle that most of the cool Lexuses are now Priuses under the hood! But that’s a good thing. I own a Toyota Corolla hybrid myself, and hybrids are one of those things that I can say I’ve completely changed my mind about. I used to dislike the idea of hybrids, because I assumed that the overall system complexity must be higher than either an ICE, or an EV. And I’m a sucker for simple systems, so I though…

For the reason you stated in the last paragraph I eventually opted against getting a Hyundai Ioniq in favour of a Toyota. The Hyundai felt like driving a regular automatic, so it would occasionally lunge awkwardly and spin the engine in situations where Toyotas switch to EV mode. Sure it had better fuel economy, but I can't stand having a car not react immediately to my input or make noise when it shouldn't.

> I can't stand having a car not react immediately to my input

I'm spoiled from years of Priuses now, and driving gas cars, even fancy and expensive ones, feels bizarrely primitive. The lag between the pedal and the response, and the complex relationship between the input and the response, feels antiquated and arcane.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#117

Post by Epa095 »

jajko wrote: post #30
inciampati wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A regular EV also requires no special infrastructure. Just your regular house electrical system (e.g. 120v wall outlet in the US). Only on long trips do you need fast chargers or does range anxiety kick in. If you do a lot of long drives I can see that being a problem. But if not I'd be willing to bet you'd lose less time charging than taking your vehicle to the mechanic for maintenance and repairs. Because the EV, w…

Not really. Living in Switzerland, colleague has Model S, and over whole night plugged in his house he can charge only around 9km/h. That basically covers his commute but he can't build up charge for the weekend if he started week empty. Not even going into the fact that most folks here live in apartments and not standalone houses, and charging situation there is usually terrible and overhead of owning electric car i…

If the numbers I find online for tesla power usage is correct, that would indicate that she charges with around 1.8 kW. But most homes should have little problem supplying the double (16 ampere with 230v = 3.680kW). But maybe she is stuck with 10 ampere?

But even with 9km/h I am surprised that's not enough, does she really drive more than 108km a day?

(this is not to take away from her experience, I am just surprised)

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#118

Post by goosejuice »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #10
blackoil wrote: post #4

Hope Toyota get their mojo back for EVs.

I'm kinda OK with them just dominating hybrids; especially plugins. I own a 2024 Prius Prime (PHEV) and the setup works great. No range anxiety, no special charging infra (I just plug in on a normal 120v overnight). I got the car in Feb 24 and maybe pumped gas a total of 8 times? If I didn't make two longer trips, it would have been 6. But also, the power output is pretty great and an upgrade over the hybrid only mod…

I was planning on buying the highest trim '24 Prius prime but availability and dealership markup made it unreasonable even in a large city. The lower trims didn't seem worth it. Instead I bought a used '23 model 3 long range with every upgrade (accel & fsd) and still saved money. Car had a few thousand miles.

I'm super happy I didn't get the Prius. Spec wise the Tesla is superior. Driving our other ice car is less enjoyable for me now. I use 120v but I work from home so it works. I still like the Prius/RAV4 prime but at its price point and limited availability I just don't see the value over Tesla.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#119

Post by esalman »

jgilias wrote: post #63
Tade0 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the reason you stated in the last paragraph I eventually opted against getting a Hyundai Ioniq in favour of a Toyota. The Hyundai felt like driving a regular automatic, so it would occasionally lunge awkwardly and spin the engine in situations where Toyotas switch to EV mode. Sure it had better fuel economy, but I can't stand having a car not react immediately to my input or make noise when it shouldn't.

To be fair, it did take some time for me to get used to how a hybrid sounds. It’s fine when not driving aggressively. When you floor it though, it does feel weird when the engine jumps to the highest safe revs and stays there. That’s a small price to pay for reliability and smooth power delivery though.

Are you talking about how the CVT transmission sounds?

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#120

Post by jazzyjackson »

dtgriscom wrote: post #48
Alex3917 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problems with the Prius are basically: - Terrible in snow and ice - No way to defrost your windshield, unless you're already driving - Poor rear window visibility If not for those things it would be great, but unfortunately they've made zero progress on fixing any of the core issues for the last 25 years. The new models definitely do look cooler, and I appreciate that they accelerate faster, but I personally care…

> Terrible in snow and ice Are they worse than most front-drive cars? (And what about compared with a Trans Am?) > No way to defrost your windshield, unless you're already driving I've wondered about that. The Prius still gets its cabin heating from the ICE? > Poor rear window visibility Agree completely.

Cabin heating is done by heat pump but the gas engine kicks on for the front defrost. I don't know what parent is referring to wrt not being able to run defroster.
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