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Has LLM killed traditional NLP?

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Re: Has LLM killed traditional NLP?

#21

Post by blindriver »

axegon_ wrote: post #6

No, it has not and will not in the foreseeable future. This is one of my responsibilities at work. LLMs are not feasible when you have a dataset of 10 million items that you need to classify relatively fast and at a reasonable cost. LLMs are great at mid-level complexity tasks given a reasonable volume of data - they can take away the tedious job of figuring out what you are looking at or even come up with some basic…

That’s sort of like asking a horse and buggy driver whether automobiles are going to put them out of business.

I think for the most part, casual nlp is dead because of LLMs. And LLM costs are going to plummet soon, so large scale nlp that you’re talking about is probably dead within 5 years or less. The fact that you can replace programmers with prompts is huge in my opinion so no one needs to learn an nlm API anymore, just stuff it into a prompt. Once costs to power LLMs decrease to meet the cost of programmers it’s game over.

Re: Has LLM killed traditional NLP?

#23

Post by alexwebb2 »

axegon_ wrote: post #6

No, it has not and will not in the foreseeable future. This is one of my responsibilities at work. LLMs are not feasible when you have a dataset of 10 million items that you need to classify relatively fast and at a reasonable cost. LLMs are great at mid-level complexity tasks given a reasonable volume of data - they can take away the tedious job of figuring out what you are looking at or even come up with some basic…

I think your intuition on this might be lagging a fair bit behind the current state of LLMs.

System message: answer with just "service" or "product"

User message (variable): 20 bottles of ferric chloride

Response: product

Model: OpenAI GPT-4o-mini

$0.075/1Mt batch input * 27 input tokens * 10M jobs = $20.25

$0.300/1Mt batch output * 1 output token * 10M jobs = $3.00

It's a sub-$25 job.

You'd need to be doing 20 times that volume every single day to even start to justify hiring an NLP engineer instead.

Re: Has LLM killed traditional NLP?

#24

Post by LeafItAlone »

alexwebb2 wrote: post #23
axegon_ wrote: post #6

No, it has not and will not in the foreseeable future. This is one of my responsibilities at work. LLMs are not feasible when you have a dataset of 10 million items that you need to classify relatively fast and at a reasonable cost. LLMs are great at mid-level complexity tasks given a reasonable volume of data - they can take away the tedious job of figuring out what you are looking at or even come up with some basic…

I think your intuition on this might be lagging a fair bit behind the current state of LLMs. System message: answer with just "service" or "product" User message (variable): 20 bottles of ferric chloride Response: product Model: OpenAI GPT-4o-mini $0.075/1Mt batch input * 27 input tokens * 10M jobs = $20.25 $0.300/1Mt batch output * 1 output token * 10M jobs = $3.00 It's a sub-$25 job. You'd need to be doing 20 times…

>You'd need to be doing 20 times that volume every single day to even start to justify hiring an NLP engineer instead.

How much for the “prompt engineer”? Who is going to be doing the work and validating the output?

Re: Has LLM killed traditional NLP?

#26

Post by dartos »

blindriver wrote: post #21
axegon_ wrote: post #6

No, it has not and will not in the foreseeable future. This is one of my responsibilities at work. LLMs are not feasible when you have a dataset of 10 million items that you need to classify relatively fast and at a reasonable cost. LLMs are great at mid-level complexity tasks given a reasonable volume of data - they can take away the tedious job of figuring out what you are looking at or even come up with some basic…

That’s sort of like asking a horse and buggy driver whether automobiles are going to put them out of business. I think for the most part, casual nlp is dead because of LLMs. And LLM costs are going to plummet soon, so large scale nlp that you’re talking about is probably dead within 5 years or less. The fact that you can replace programmers with prompts is huge in my opinion so no one needs to learn an nlm API anymor…

> LLM costs

Inference costs, not training costs.

> The fact that you can replace programmers

You can’t… not for any real project. For quick mockups they’re serviceable

> That’s sort of like asking a horse and buggy driver whether automobiles

Kind of an insult to OP, no? Horse and buggy drivers were not highly educated experts in their field.

Maybe take the word of domain experts rather than AI company marketing teams.

Re: Has LLM killed traditional NLP?

#28

Post by alexwebb2 »

LeafItAlone wrote: post #24
alexwebb2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your intuition on this might be lagging a fair bit behind the current state of LLMs. System message: answer with just "service" or "product" User message (variable): 20 bottles of ferric chloride Response: product Model: OpenAI GPT-4o-mini $0.075/1Mt batch input * 27 input tokens * 10M jobs = $20.25 $0.300/1Mt batch output * 1 output token * 10M jobs = $3.00 It's a sub-$25 job. You'd need to be doing 20 times…

>You'd need to be doing 20 times that volume every single day to even start to justify hiring an NLP engineer instead. How much for the “prompt engineer”? Who is going to be doing the work and validating the output?

All software engineers are (or can be) prompt engineers, at least to the level of trivial jobs like this. It's just an API call and a one-liner instruction. Odds are very good at most companies that they have someone on staff who can knock this out in short order. No specialized hiring required.

Re: Has LLM killed traditional NLP?

#29

Post by blindriver »

dartos wrote: post #26
blindriver wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s sort of like asking a horse and buggy driver whether automobiles are going to put them out of business. I think for the most part, casual nlp is dead because of LLMs. And LLM costs are going to plummet soon, so large scale nlp that you’re talking about is probably dead within 5 years or less. The fact that you can replace programmers with prompts is huge in my opinion so no one needs to learn an nlm API anymor…

> LLM costs Inference costs, not training costs. > The fact that you can replace programmers You can’t… not for any real project. For quick mockups they’re serviceable > That’s sort of like asking a horse and buggy driver whether automobiles Kind of an insult to OP, no? Horse and buggy drivers were not highly educated experts in their field. Maybe take the word of domain experts rather than AI company marketing teams…

> Maybe take the word of domain experts rather than AI company marketing teams.

Appeal to authority is a well known logical fallacy.

I know how dead NLP is personally because I’ve never been able to get NLP working but once ChatGPT came around, I was able to classify texts extremely easily. It’s transformational.

I was able to get ChatGPT to classify posts based on how political it was from a scale of 1 to 10 and which political leaning they were and then classify the persons likely political affiliations.

All of this without needing to learn any APIs or anything about NLPs. Sorry but given my experience, NLPs are dead in the water right now, except in terms of cost. And cost will go down exponentially as they always do. Right now I’m waiting for the RTC 5090 so I can just do it myself with open source LLM.

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