Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds • Hacker News Board

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#71

Post by yummyfajitas » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 1:36 PM UTC

charliesome wrote: post #17

mjfern wrote: post #11

> I prefer the plain android look, and dislike the various skins manufacturers have used (I really don't understand the "pee in the snow" model of skinning android to look and act horrible just so that the different manufacturers can make their mark on it - I'm pretty sure the majority of people tend to prefer plain android). Tablet and smartphone manufacturers are doing this because they are trying to differentiate…

Why don't manufacturers compete on quality instead? I can walk into a store and see the Apple computers on one side and the Windows computers on the other. All the Apple computers look and feel beautiful, but the Windows computers are plastered with stickers and 'Beats by Dr Dre' branding. They're made out of what looks like the cheapest plastic ever. I can understand why Apple is absolutely killing it at the moment…

Lenovo certainly does compete on quality, it just aims for a different set of quality seekers.

Apple targets people who want their computer to look pretty. Lenovo targets the people who want to get stuff done.

Want to quickly scroll through a document? page up/page down/home/end buttons? Lenovo's got it. Want to change the volume easily and still have access to f1-f12? Lenovo's got dedicated buttons for it. Spill your drink? There's a good chance your drink harmlessly poured out through holes in the bottom (damaging at most the keyboard).

Need more battery life? Buy a second battery and swap them when the first runs out. Need more ram? Just open it up and put it in. Same thing if you want a new HD/etc.

Combine this with great linux support [1] and Lenovo is a clear win for me.

[1] At work we have macbook pros, getting it to work with linux was a disaster.

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#72

Post by Kilimanjaro » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 1:54 PM UTC

hrktb wrote: post #37

> You'd look like a complete dork trying to take photos with a tablet anyway "The best camera is the one you have with you" as we say, looking like a dork is irrelevant. The ipad camera is actually usable and if that's what you have in your hand you just take the photo with it. Now I agree at 200$ a super good camera would be asking to much for what seems to be an already very good device.

A thousand times my sister has facetimed me from New Zealand laying in her bed, chatting incessantly about her new life as a mother, then all of the sudden she flips the camera (not the iPad) to show me her little angel sleeping in her cradle.

Thanks Apple.

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#73

Post by jiggy2011 » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 2:00 PM UTC

hrktb wrote: post #37

> You'd look like a complete dork trying to take photos with a tablet anyway "The best camera is the one you have with you" as we say, looking like a dork is irrelevant. The ipad camera is actually usable and if that's what you have in your hand you just take the photo with it. Now I agree at 200$ a super good camera would be asking to much for what seems to be an already very good device.

I guess his point is you're more likely to have a phone 'always with you' therefor a tablet camera is sort of superfluous apart from in a few instances.

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#74

Post by generalk » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 2:03 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #71

charliesome wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't manufacturers compete on quality instead? I can walk into a store and see the Apple computers on one side and the Windows computers on the other. All the Apple computers look and feel beautiful, but the Windows computers are plastered with stickers and 'Beats by Dr Dre' branding. They're made out of what looks like the cheapest plastic ever. I can understand why Apple is absolutely killing it at the moment…

Lenovo certainly does compete on quality, it just aims for a different set of quality seekers. Apple targets people who want their computer to look pretty. Lenovo targets the people who want to get stuff done. Want to quickly scroll through a document? page up/page down/home/end buttons? Lenovo's got it. Want to change the volume easily and still have access to f1-f12? Lenovo's got dedicated buttons for it. Spill you…

  > Apple targets people who want their computer to look pretty. 
  > Lenovo targets the people who want to get stuff done.

I'm no Apple fanboy, but this statement's ridiculous.

  > Want to quickly scroll through a document? page up/page down/home/end buttons? Lenovo's got it.

Two-finger inertial scrolling on the amazing glass trackpad. Or, Command-arrow keys. Same effect. Not one-button, but it's not like the functionality isn't there.

  > Want to change the volume easily and still have access to f1-f12? Lenovo's got dedicated buttons for it.

Macbooks have a "fn" key that can be held to modify the function key behaviors, and the unmodified behavior is a Mac OS X Preference option.

  > Need more battery life? Buy a second battery and swap them when the first runs out.
  > Need more ram? Just open it up and put it in. Same thing if you want a new HD/etc.

I feel the need to point out that these are completely valid arguments against the new Macbooks.

I have a Late 2008 Macbook Pro, the first unibody they made, and the only reason it still runs strong is because I've swapped the battery, RAM, and HDD (now an SSD). I love the new Retina Display Macbooks, but I don't know if I can put that kind of money down on a computer that isn't upgradeable. Not when it's my primary mode of earning a living.

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#75

Post by generalk » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 2:10 PM UTC

Steko wrote: post #39

mjfern wrote: post #11

> I prefer the plain android look, and dislike the various skins manufacturers have used (I really don't understand the "pee in the snow" model of skinning android to look and act horrible just so that the different manufacturers can make their mark on it - I'm pretty sure the majority of people tend to prefer plain android). Tablet and smartphone manufacturers are doing this because they are trying to differentiate…

It's easy in July 2012 for Linus (or whoever) to say "why mess with stock android" as if it's always been as good as 4.1. These layers were built not just for differentiation but for base functionality/gloss that stock eclair/froyo/gingerbread lacked. And try not to be shocked but many users preferred those ui layers and those phones way outsold the stock phones head to head. Also it's vaguely relevant to remember th…

  > These layers were built not just for differentiation but for   
  > base functionality/gloss that stock eclair/froyo/gingerbread lacked.

Certainly!

But then Android got awesome. 4.0 is good, and 4.1 is great. But manufacturers like Samsung and HTC continue to ship their phones with 4.0 upgrades that aren't upgrades! For example: my brother's Galaxy Note. He recently got the 4.0 upgrade from Samsung, which required him to download software (Kies) from Samsung and leash his phone to his laptop to upgrade. I have no idea why.

Then, we did the upgrade, but he's missing features: the 4.0 panoramic camera comes quickly to mind. The stock dialer and people apps, which are amazing, aren't there. The new in-call UI I believe also isn't there. Seriously, they're shipping 4.0 but holding some of the better UX upgrades back.

He even asked me what the hell was new about his phone. I said I didn't know. The menus look different, some of the UI controls are new, Face Unlock is a cool showoff feature, but besides that he's still running Samsung's diminished-experience crap.

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#76

Post by Cieplak » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 2:17 PM UTC

giulianob wrote: post #68

jiggy2011 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of a chicken/egg perception problem. The perception is that if you want to buy a "posh" computer you should get a Mac. Therefor Mac=Expensive , PC=Cheap. This is I guess part of the reason that auto manufacturers will use different brand names for different market segments. Because it's difficult to signal "I am successful and buy nice cars" with a Skoda badge. An example of a "high end" PC would be Alie…

Thinkpads have great quality but I have to say I have not seen any touch pads that come anywhere close to the quality of the ones on a Mac. Luckily I prefer the Lenovo "nipple" over a touchpad but most people hate it and bringing a high quality touchpad to a PC would be a big deal IMO.

http://xkcd.com/243/

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#77

Post by yummyfajitas » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 2:27 PM UTC

generalk wrote: post #74

yummyfajitas wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lenovo certainly does compete on quality, it just aims for a different set of quality seekers. Apple targets people who want their computer to look pretty. Lenovo targets the people who want to get stuff done. Want to quickly scroll through a document? page up/page down/home/end buttons? Lenovo's got it. Want to change the volume easily and still have access to f1-f12? Lenovo's got dedicated buttons for it. Spill you…

> Apple targets people who want their computer to look pretty. > Lenovo targets the people who want to get stuff done. I'm no Apple fanboy, but this statement's ridiculous. > Want to quickly scroll through a document? page up/page down/home/end buttons? Lenovo's got it. Two-finger inertial scrolling on the amazing glass trackpad. Or, Command-arrow keys. Same effect. Not one-button, but it's not like the functionality…

I wasn't claiming a macbook can't scroll. I was just claiming that Lenovo has a lot of features that don't necessarily look pretty, but which make it easy to actually use the damn thing on an everyday basis.

Fewer buttons isn't necessarily better nor is it even simpler. The simplest thing in the world is a "do exactly what I want" button for every common value of "what I want". It's not pretty or as easy to market or as pretty, but it's highly usable.

(I'll skip the rant about my iPhone, and how it forces me to waste screen real estate on buttons that come built into Android.)

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#78

Post by w1ntermute » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 2:36 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #71

charliesome wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't manufacturers compete on quality instead? I can walk into a store and see the Apple computers on one side and the Windows computers on the other. All the Apple computers look and feel beautiful, but the Windows computers are plastered with stickers and 'Beats by Dr Dre' branding. They're made out of what looks like the cheapest plastic ever. I can understand why Apple is absolutely killing it at the moment…

Lenovo certainly does compete on quality, it just aims for a different set of quality seekers. Apple targets people who want their computer to look pretty. Lenovo targets the people who want to get stuff done. Want to quickly scroll through a document? page up/page down/home/end buttons? Lenovo's got it. Want to change the volume easily and still have access to f1-f12? Lenovo's got dedicated buttons for it. Spill you…

> Need more battery life? Buy a second battery and swap them when the first runs out. Need more ram? Just open it up and put it in. Same thing if you want a new HD/etc.

This is one of the biggest factors for me in getting a PC laptop over a MacBook. When I buy a ThinkPad, I intend to keep it for 5 years. My friends with MacBooks all replace them every 2-3 years.

> Combine this with great linux support [1] and Lenovo is a clear win for me.

This is another big factor. I tell anyone who's interested in Linux that the best laptop for Linux is a ThinkPad. Everything works flawlessly out of the box.

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#79

Post by w1ntermute » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 2:38 PM UTC

giulianob wrote: post #68

jiggy2011 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of a chicken/egg perception problem. The perception is that if you want to buy a "posh" computer you should get a Mac. Therefor Mac=Expensive , PC=Cheap. This is I guess part of the reason that auto manufacturers will use different brand names for different market segments. Because it's difficult to signal "I am successful and buy nice cars" with a Skoda badge. An example of a "high end" PC would be Alie…

Thinkpads have great quality but I have to say I have not seen any touch pads that come anywhere close to the quality of the ones on a Mac. Luckily I prefer the Lenovo "nipple" over a touchpad but most people hate it and bringing a high quality touchpad to a PC would be a big deal IMO.

> I prefer the Lenovo "nipple" over a touchpad but most people hate it

The problem is that no one gives the TrackPoint a chance. I've seen people who've used ThinkPads for years and have never even touched the TrackPoint. But if you spend about 30 minutes working with it, you'll find that it's superior to both mice and trackpads for 99% of tasks (gaming being the one exception, for which I keep a mouse on hand).

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#80

Post by jmj42 » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 2:57 PM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #79

giulianob wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinkpads have great quality but I have to say I have not seen any touch pads that come anywhere close to the quality of the ones on a Mac. Luckily I prefer the Lenovo "nipple" over a touchpad but most people hate it and bringing a high quality touchpad to a PC would be a big deal IMO.

> I prefer the Lenovo "nipple" over a touchpad but most people hate it The problem is that no one gives the TrackPoint a chance. I've seen people who've used ThinkPads for years and have never even touched the TrackPoint. But if you spend about 30 minutes working with it, you'll find that it's superior to both mice and trackpads for 99% of tasks (gaming being the one exception, for which I keep a mouse on hand).

I have to agree. While my current laptop is a Macbook (and inertial two-finger scrolling is awesome), I've been using Thinkpads for years (I actually have two for home use), and nothing beats the Trackpoint. It's fast and efficient, and you don't have to pull you hands away from the keyboard to perform mouse operations. For what it's worth, I even disable the trackpad on my Thinkpads and only use the Trackpoint.