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Using ChatGPT is not bad for the environment

andymasley.substack.com

201–210 of 337 posts

Re: Using ChatGPT is not bad for the environment

#201
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree with you, but Americans intentionally reinforce car dependence whenever it's discussed. It's bad enough that even non-US people regurgitate those talking points despite them being significantly less true for them; because they see it so much online.

> I would agree with you, but Americans intentionally reinforce car dependence whenever it's discussed. They do, because their experience is that transit and biking really do suck and are useless. Which is accurate, for where they've lived. The problem is that you have to convince people that things could be better, when their lived experience is that it's always terrible.

> The problem is that you have to convince people that things could be better, when their lived experience is that it's always terrible.

Ironically, international air travel to places where it works great may help with this.

Re: Using ChatGPT is not bad for the environment

#202
post #192
post #189

> and it’s completely clear to me that one side is getting it entirely wrong and spreading misleading ideas What a great way to start an article. I get it as: "I am not open to listening to your arguments, and in fact if you disagree with me, I will assume that you are a moron". It reminds me of people saying "planes are not the problem: actually if you compare it to driving a car, it uses less energy per person and…

I take your general point, but: > Except that it doesn't work if you don't drive your car alone (if you assume the plane is full of passengers, why not assuming that the car is, as well?) These can be measured for averages. Lots of cars with one person in them, seldom cars fully packed; lots of planes fully packed, seldom (but it does happen) that the plane is almost empty. > we have largely missed the goal of keepin…

> These can be measured for averages. Lots of cars with one person in them

Sure, but the point should be that we should strive to share cars, not that it's okay to take the plane! Especially given the second argument which is that you don't drive 1000km every time you take your car. The footprint per km is not enough: when you take the plane you typically go much further!

> Probably, yes; last year passed the threshold

That, plus the IPCC scenario that keeps us under 1.5C says that in a few decades, not only we won't be extracting any carbon anymore, but we will be pumping carbon underground faster than we are extracting it now! And that's with the IPCC models which tend to be optimistic (we measure that every year)!

> 14 because it would take 14 years for the exponential — seen for the last 30 years — for PV to replace all forms of power consumption

And you would have to take into account that PV today entirely relies on oil. We are going towards a world with less and less oil, and we don't know how it will impact our capacity of production for PVs. But probably it won't help.

> In so far as your bracket, sure; but there's a huge gap in what equipment you would need.

Sure. It was a quick way to say that the combination of humidity and temperature will be such that sweating won't help humans regulate their temperature. And when we can't regulate our temperature, we die. By any account, this means that billions of people will have to relocate, which means global wars (with entire countries moving with their entire armies).

Now of course that would be infinitely better than trying to live on Mars, which is why it is preposterous to even consider Mars.

Re: Using ChatGPT is not bad for the environment

#203
post #122
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do this through the government. Implement meat rations. Everybody is only allowed so much meat per week. So you have to make it count.

Not by rationing, if you meant the US government: US per-capita consumption of meat is 328 lbs/year [UN FAO]. You'd try to reduce the subsidies and incentives for meat/ corn/ soybean production which are baked into the USDA budget ($200bn in 2024), since the 1930s (Great Depression), and more since the 1950s (and related stuff like the marketing tool of the "Food Pyramid"). These will be as politically hard to cancel…

That's an incredible amount of meat. That's 400g a day per person. I can't even eat that much meat in one go without feeling the meal is seriously unbalanced. Half that is a meat heavy meal for me. So that must mean a significant number people are eating huge amounts of meat for every meal. That or the waste is huge.

Re: Using ChatGPT is not bad for the environment

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would agree with you, but Americans intentionally reinforce car dependence whenever it's discussed. They do, because their experience is that transit and biking really do suck and are useless. Which is accurate, for where they've lived. The problem is that you have to convince people that things could be better, when their lived experience is that it's always terrible.

I ride a bike, and doing so has saved me about $450k in transportation costs over 3 decades. The effort it takes to earn $450k is something to include amongst the unpleasantries and pathologies associated with driving. Now, of course, I've had my whole life to set up my whole life the way I want it, and with a little foresight it really wasn't that difficult to set it up in a way that facilitates getting around on a…

450k tax-free, too, because it's a cost saving and those aren't taxable*.

Myself I've not driven at least since late 2017, thanks to excellent and cheap public transport; even before the Germany-wide €58/month ticket, the more expensive Berlin-AB ticket that I used to get was much much less than your $15k/year.

Do most people plan like that?

* usually, though IIRC buying a house in Switzerland gets you a tax equal to the money you saved from not renting it?

Re: Using ChatGPT is not bad for the environment

#205
post #17

~90% of the plastic debris in the ocean comes from ten rivers [0]. eight are in china/SEA. millions and billions of single-use items are sitting in warehouses and on store shelves wrapped in plastic. even before the plastic is discarded, the factories these items are produced in dump metric tons of waste into the oceans/soil with little repercussion. point is, none of our "personal lifestyle decisions" - not eating m…

That's definitely not true. Let's take Americans, for example, driving their cars to work. Americans are about 15% of the world's emissions, of which 25% or so is transportation, of which well over half is cars. So you not driving to work is making direct impact on 2-3% of the world's overall emissions. Likewise, your decisions on all the other things, if taken in aggregate, will have a significant impact on overall…

The amount of people who choose to not drive to work is significantly impacted by policy.

Re: Using ChatGPT is not bad for the environment

#206
post #17

~90% of the plastic debris in the ocean comes from ten rivers [0]. eight are in china/SEA. millions and billions of single-use items are sitting in warehouses and on store shelves wrapped in plastic. even before the plastic is discarded, the factories these items are produced in dump metric tons of waste into the oceans/soil with little repercussion. point is, none of our "personal lifestyle decisions" - not eating m…

well, it's really not about the destruction of the planet but making our habitat more hostile and humans more sick.

sure, STEM will continue to find remedies and cures but at some point we're fucked just because the gene pool was reduced to an unnaturally selected bunch that survived & thrived completely alienated from the actual world.

sure, no biggie, wahaha, that's the name of the game, the old will die, the young repeat the same nonsense and that microbiome and all that other stuff we carry with us as hosts, potentially most likely in a beneficial symbiotic relationship, have no implicit mechanisms to cancel the contract and pivot towards some species or other that won't be d u m b enough to shit all over it's own home & garden, consequently ruining the bio-chemistry with the smell, taste and look of feces everywhere - in the body as well as outside - and all that while it's getting a bit hot in here.

and I doubt that the consequences of controlled demise in a deteriorating environment all while the meds and drugs of leadership and the people fade out quite a few of the brains and the bodies implicit reactions to a lot of sensory perceptions to everything that was vital, crucial to notice for a 'million' years can't be projected to at least some degree. I mean "blindspots" are a thinking tool, after all, but those thinking brains and minds believe in black swans and the better angels of our nature so that doesn't really mean a thing.

the population itself is fine, a habit of psycho-social education and all consecutive upper levels being insanely afraid of competition and insights from below. thing is, whatever financial survival schemes people are running, they all have death cult written all over their faces.

btw, most of this was for fun, I'm really not worried at all. climate change is more a cycle than man-made acceleration. my only point of interest is the deterioration of the species due to all the things that we do and then worry more about the habitat than our and all kinds.

we absolutely can turn the planet into a conservatory. through any climate.

Re: Using ChatGPT is not bad for the environment

#207
post #17

~90% of the plastic debris in the ocean comes from ten rivers [0]. eight are in china/SEA. millions and billions of single-use items are sitting in warehouses and on store shelves wrapped in plastic. even before the plastic is discarded, the factories these items are produced in dump metric tons of waste into the oceans/soil with little repercussion. point is, none of our "personal lifestyle decisions" - not eating m…

Regarding the immediate effect I am sure your point is valid. But it’s also a bit of a cynical point of view, wouldn’t you say? People make these statements and pursue these personal lifestyle decisions because of their dreams for a better future - not its immediate effect. Just as companies need a vision to succeed, societies need vision as well. If a lot of people are vocal about something and live it, it has a chance of becoming anchored in laws and so force companies to do the “right thing”. Regulation follows collective values.

Re: Using ChatGPT is not bad for the environment

#208

Yet we also see that hyperscale cloud emissions targets have been reversed due to AI investment, Datacenter growth is hitting grid capacity limits in many regions, and peaker plant and other non-renewable resources on the grid are being deployed more to handle this specific growth from AI. I think the author, by qualifying on "chatgpt" maybe can make the claims they are making but I don't believe the larger argument…

Why do you belive this? Datacenter uses just a 1-1.3 percent of electricity from grid and even if you suppose AI increased the usage by 2x(which I really doubt), the number would still be tiny. Also AI training is easiest workload to regulate, as you can only train when you have cheaper green energy.

I also had doubts, but asked chat and it confirms it’s an issue - including sources.

https://chatgpt.com/share/678b6b3e-9708-8009-bcad-8ba84a5145...

The issue is that they are often localised, so even if it’s just 1% of power, it can cause issues.

Still, by itself, grid issues don’t mean climate issues. And any argument complaining about a co2 cost should also consider alternative cost to be reliable. Even if ai was causing 1% or 2% or 10% of energy use, the real question is how much it saves by making society more efficient. And even if it wasn’t, it’s again more of a question about energy companies polluting with co2.

Microsoft, which hosts OpenAI, is famously amazing in terms of their co2 emissions - so far they were going way beyond what other companies were doing.

Re: Using ChatGPT is not bad for the environment

#209
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people should be angry about that , yes. I’m not particularly interested in tying eating meat to racism or whatever it takes to make people fearful enough to support you.

And this is why everything will keep going up in flames - you're not interested in doing what it has been shown to take to get people to support your cause. Unfortunately it doesn't matter what we think people should be angry about. FWIW I obviously completely agree with you! People should be angry about those things! Turns out they aren't. What matters is the reality we live in.

I'd say accusing people of random stuff(racism,sexism and other isms) have been so overplayed in recent years, not only it doesn't work anymore, it works against you.

Re: Using ChatGPT is not bad for the environment

#210
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes all emissions / externalities are created equal, which they are not.

Could you say more? Are you talking about comparing CO2 to N2O to CH4 to fluorocarbons, for example?

Yes, that. But also that these different externalities will have different responses to reduction at scale, which also impacts how effective action on a more "personal" level really is.

For example the OP was talking about plastic. A 2% reduction in plastic waste has a clear benefit, because any amount of plastic reduction is a bonus. However it is not clear that a 5% reduction in CO2 emissions due to Americans driving their cars less will have any meaningful difference when it comes to climate change.

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