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Men Walk On Moon - July 20th 1969

nytimes.com

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Re: Men Walk On Moon - July 20th 1969

#61

Post by gamache »

tieno wrote: post #44
gamache wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just registered an account to complain about a message of unequivocal world peace from the first human to set foot on an extraplanetary body.

No, I did not. And he did so with misogynist language. Which made me twinge. I don't complain, I state my feelings. It just shows in what a weird time this was happening.

You're right, you didn't. My mistake, I apologize.

A few questions though. Would you be displeased at someone saying "Hey guys!" or "Hi fellas!" or "What's up, dudes?" to a group of mixed gender?

Do you feel that these greetings play a part in entrenching patriarchy in a real way?

Do you feel that a protest against such greetings would play a part in overcoming patriarchy in a real way?

Do you think it matters if the greeter knows the group they are greeting? If so, does it matter because of actual familiarity or just formality?

Re: Men Walk On Moon - July 20th 1969

#62

Post by rimantas »

tieno wrote: post #59
naturalethic wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "men" also means humanity you idiot.

Yes, that is exactly the problem. Is that really so hard to understand?

No, there is no problem. People looking for problems where are none are problem though.

Re: Men Walk On Moon - July 20th 1969

#63

Post by [deleted] »

kragen wrote: post #57
russell wrote: post #29

We need to be reminded that once we did great things. I worked at MIT Instrumentation Lab on a compiler for the guidance software for the moon missions. My contribution was insignificant, but I am still proud to have been part of it. My only regret was that I never made it to Florida to watch a Saturn V take off.

Russell as in Steve Russell? Because, if so, I think you've done things much more significant than land men on the moon.

[deleted]

Re: Men Walk On Moon - July 20th 1969

#65

Post by Monotoko »

kragen wrote: post #57
russell wrote: post #29

We need to be reminded that once we did great things. I worked at MIT Instrumentation Lab on a compiler for the guidance software for the moon missions. My contribution was insignificant, but I am still proud to have been part of it. My only regret was that I never made it to Florida to watch a Saturn V take off.

Russell as in Steve Russell? Because, if so, I think you've done things much more significant than land men on the moon.

I had to write an assignment about Steve Russell just the other week... if that is indeed you, hats off and I commend you for your work. Small world.. :)

Re: Men Walk On Moon - July 20th 1969

#66

Post by CanSpice »

eps wrote: post #60
naturalethic wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why aren't there any pictures of the landing zones from orbit? Interesting.

There are some, but they are from NASA. A more interesting question is what happened to India's promise to release all its Lunar low-orbit reconnaissance mission data to the public. Or why there is virtually no data coming from Japanese mission of the same nature. Both with hidef ultrazoom cameras mind you.

In a couple of minutes of hunting I found the Kaguya data archive [http://l2db.selene.darts.isas.jaxa.jp/index.html.en] and the Chandrayaan-1 data archive [http://issdc.gov.in/CHBrowse/index.jsp]. So, uh, yeah, both countries released the data.

Re: Men Walk On Moon - July 20th 1969

#67

Post by Retric »

bdunbar wrote: post #30
Retric wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really a question of wings so much as weight. The real issue with putting something on top is that what's below needs to carry that weight which is easier to avoid if the shuttle has it's own engines and sit's on the side. More importantly if the shuttle was not designed to send a few tones of stuff to orbit it could use the same basic design without experiencing anywhere near the same thermal stress and hav…

It's not really a question of wings so much as weight. The wings - because they were wings - were vulnerable to debris strikes during launch. Which wasn't important during _launch_ but was sure a problem during re-entry.

Again, the thermal protection system was delicate because of weight issues. If the shuttles design goal was to get 20 people to LEO safely and they had anywhere close to the same budget to work with they could have used a few inches of titanium as part of the thermal protection system vs just glued on tiles that are less dense than Styrofoam.

PS: The surface area to weight is directly related to reentry heating. A person can do reentry in little more than one of those old style space suits and a parachute, the shuttle needed something that was barely possible to build.

Re: Men Walk On Moon - July 20th 1969

#68

Post by Danieru »

huhtenberg wrote: post #49
ijager wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like this reasoning: If NASA was willing to fake such a big accomplishment, why haven't they done another one in the next 40 years?

Because the technology for detecting such faking has improved dramatically since the 60s?

If that was the case then why has the 60s 'faking' not been discovered? If a 1960's faking is undetectable in 2012 then I expect a 2012 faking would be even more convincing. Thus there must be some other reason for not faking a mars landing.

PS: The exact name for my line of argument is 'begging the question'. Yes, that 'begging the question'. The one grammar nazis internet wide have been referring to since 1994. Bet you thought you'd never see it.

Re: Men Walk On Moon - July 20th 1969

#69

Post by [deleted] »

kragen wrote: post #57
russell wrote: post #29

We need to be reminded that once we did great things. I worked at MIT Instrumentation Lab on a compiler for the guidance software for the moon missions. My contribution was insignificant, but I am still proud to have been part of it. My only regret was that I never made it to Florida to watch a Saturn V take off.

Russell as in Steve Russell? Because, if so, I think you've done things much more significant than land men on the moon.

[deleted]

Re: Men Walk On Moon - July 20th 1969

#70

Post by ahelwer »

rimantas wrote: post #62
tieno wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is exactly the problem. Is that really so hard to understand?

No, there is no problem. People looking for problems where are none are problem though.

All right, I'll pop in here I guess. This has obviously veered incredibly off-topic and I can absolutely forgive Armstrong for using that language so many years ago.

Now, that being said language is powerful and inclusive language is important. I wouldn't dismiss this as a problem so candidly. Just registering my support for Tieno's issues so you don't dismiss them as a lone super-PC-police-person.

Also, "that's just the way (the word is used)/(it is)" has never been a great defense of using non-inclusive language. Or anything, really.

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