Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

OpenAI fails to deliver opt-out system for photographers

petapixel.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 166 posts

Re: OpenAI fails to deliver opt-out system for photographers

#21

Post by jsheard »

thrance wrote: post #14

Another one of these daily reminders that we live in a two-tiered justice system, everything you ever created is fair game to them, but don't you dare use a leak of their weights lest you want to be thrown in jail.

According to OpenAI you're not even allowed to use GPT output to train a competing model, so they believe that AI models are the only thing worthy of protection from being trained on. Llama used to have a similar clause, which was partially walked back to "you must credit us if you train on Llama output" in later versions, but that's still a double standard since they don't credit anything that Llama was trained on. For obvious reasons now we know that Zuck personally greenlit feeding it pirated books.

Re: OpenAI fails to deliver opt-out system for photographers

#23

Post by paulcole »

oraphalous wrote: post #8

I don't even understand why it's everyone elses problem to opt-out. Eventually - for how many of these AI companies would a person have to track down their opt-out processes just to protect their work from AI? That's crazy. OpenAI should be contacting every single one and asking for permission - like everyone has to in order to use a person's work. How they are getting away with this is beyond me.

> OpenAI should be contacting every single one and asking for permission - like everyone has to in order to use a person's work

This is the problem of thinking that everyone “has” to do something.

I assure you that I (and you) can use someone else’s work without asking for permission.

Will there be consequences? Perhaps.

Is the risk of the consequences enough to get me to ask for permission? Perhaps.

Am I a nice enough guy to feel like I should do the right thing and ask for permission? Perhaps.

Is everyone like me? No.

> How they are getting away with this is beyond me.

Is it really beyond you?

I think it’s pretty clear.

They’re powerful enough that the political will to hold them accountable is nonexistent.

Re: OpenAI fails to deliver opt-out system for photographers

#24

Post by mschuster91 »

wilg wrote: post #5
dgfitz wrote: post #3

Eventually the headline will be the first 2 words. The tech is neat, there is value in a sense, LLMs are a fun tech. They are not going to invent AGI with LLMs.

who cares if they do it with LLMs or not? how do you define agi?

> how do you define agi?

An AI that has enough sense of self-awareness to not hallucinate and to recognize the borders of its knowledge on its own. That is fundamentally impossible to do with LLMs because in the end, they are all next-token predictors while humans are capable of a much more complex model of storing and associating information and context, and most importantly, develop "mental models" from that information and context.

And anyway, there are other tasks than text generation. Take autonomous driving for example - a driver of a car sees a person attempting to cross a street in front of them. A human can decide to slam the brake or the gas depending on the context - is the person crossing the car some old granny on a walker or a soccer player? Or a human sees a ball being kicked into the air on the sidewalk behind some cars, with no humans visible. The human can infer "whoops, there might be children playing here, better slow down and be prepared for a child to suddenly step out onto the street from between the cars", but an object detection/classification lacks that ability to even recognize the ball as being a potentially relevant piece of context.

Re: OpenAI fails to deliver opt-out system for photographers

#25

Post by devit »

Aren't lawsuits the proper way to address this?

Seems like there's an argument that model weights are a derivative work of the training data, at least if the model is capable of producing output that would be ruled to be such a derivative work given minimal prompting.

Although it may not work with photography since the model might just almost exclusively learn how the object of the photo looks in general and how photos work in general, rather than memorizing anything about specific photos.

Re: OpenAI fails to deliver opt-out system for photographers

#26

Post by farrarstan »

paulcole wrote: post #23
oraphalous wrote: post #8

I don't even understand why it's everyone elses problem to opt-out. Eventually - for how many of these AI companies would a person have to track down their opt-out processes just to protect their work from AI? That's crazy. OpenAI should be contacting every single one and asking for permission - like everyone has to in order to use a person's work. How they are getting away with this is beyond me.

> OpenAI should be contacting every single one and asking for permission - like everyone has to in order to use a person's work This is the problem of thinking that everyone “has” to do something. I assure you that I (and you) can use someone else’s work without asking for permission. Will there be consequences? Perhaps. Is the risk of the consequences enough to get me to ask for permission? Perhaps. Am I a nice enou…

[dead]

Re: OpenAI fails to deliver opt-out system for photographers

#27

Post by wilg »

mschuster91 wrote: post #24
wilg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who cares if they do it with LLMs or not? how do you define agi?

> how do you define agi? An AI that has enough sense of self-awareness to not hallucinate and to recognize the borders of its knowledge on its own . That is fundamentally impossible to do with LLMs because in the end, they are all next-token predictors while humans are capable of a much more complex model of storing and associating information and context, and most importantly, develop "mental models" from that infor…

again i don't care whether its done with an LLM or not. there's no reason to think openai will only build LLMs. recognizing borders of its knowledge is a reasonable thing to include in an agi definition i suppose, but does not seem intractable.

for the second one, ai drivers like tesla's current version is already skipping the object detection/classification and instead uses deep learning on the entire video frame and could absolutely use the ball or any other context to change behavior, even without the particular internal monologue describe there.

Re: OpenAI fails to deliver opt-out system for photographers

#29

Post by umeshunni »

jsheard wrote: post #21
thrance wrote: post #14

Another one of these daily reminders that we live in a two-tiered justice system, everything you ever created is fair game to them, but don't you dare use a leak of their weights lest you want to be thrown in jail.

According to OpenAI you're not even allowed to use GPT output to train a competing model, so they believe that AI models are the only thing worthy of protection from being trained on. Llama used to have a similar clause, which was partially walked back to "you must credit us if you train on Llama output" in later versions, but that's still a double standard since they don't credit anything that Llama was trained on.…

Well that hasn't stopped Deepseek.

Re: OpenAI fails to deliver opt-out system for photographers

#30

Post by simonw »

echelon wrote: post #7
toddmorey wrote: post #6

No way OpenAI will ever “good citizen” this. Tools to opt out of training sets will only come if they are legally compelled. Governments will have to make respecting some sort of training preference header on public content mandatory I think. The fact that photographers have to independently submit each piece of work they wanted excluded along with detailed descriptions just shows how much they DONT want anyone exclu…

Insofar as data for diffusion / image / video models are concerned, the rise of synthetic data and data efficiency will mean that none of this really matters anyway. We were just in the bootstrapping phase. You can bolt on new functional modules and train them with very limited data you acquire from Unreal Engine or in the field.

Has synthetic data become a big part of image/video models?

I understand why it's useful and popular for training LLMs, but I didn't think it was applicable to generative image/video work.

Post reply on HN