Microsoft fixes 'big boobs' coding gaffe • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft fixes 'big boobs' coding gaffe

#41

Post by true_religion » Fri, Jul 20, 2012, 2:51 PM UTC

nicholassmith wrote: post #7

dkhenry wrote: post #5

I find it funny that this is offensive to some people. I cringe that some of the silly names we have given internal code bits or projects might one day offend someone somewhere and need to have a formal apology. It's a good thing people can't get under the paint of their walls as it's common for construction workers to write notes and draw on unfinished sheetrock.

It's not about leaving a humorous note or reference (I know I've left plenty), but that it's a sexist one reflects poorly on developer culture.

Though this is possibly offensive, and happens to concern women... it is not discriminatory and therefore is not "sexist".

Please, I know it may seem like a minor point but if we generalize the term 'sexist' too much away from its origins, we will have to invent another term to define discrimination against women because of their gender/sex.

There have been arguements in the past about improper language having a chilling effect on women in the feild, therefore being indirectly discriminatory, but I don't buy it.

If you're not applying gender stereotypes, expositing hatred, or engaging in discrimination then you may still be doing something offensive, but it isn't pertinently sexist.

Re: Microsoft fixes 'big boobs' coding gaffe

#42

Post by jack-r-abbit » Fri, Jul 20, 2012, 2:55 PM UTC

Worth repeating: Until it is proven that the coder who put that in was, in fact, a male it is highly sexist to just assume that it was a man and that ladies are not capable of being childish or being into big boobs as well. ;)

Re: Microsoft fixes 'big boobs' coding gaffe

#43

Post by nicholassmith » Fri, Jul 20, 2012, 3:08 PM UTC

batista wrote: post #39

nicholassmith wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smooth move, I'm British.

Same difference. PC sillyness has crossed the Atlantic.

We have our crafted brand of over the top PC awareness thank you very much.

Re: Microsoft fixes 'big boobs' coding gaffe

#44

Post by gizmo686 » Fri, Jul 20, 2012, 4:33 PM UTC

nicholassmith wrote: post #37

pwny wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now there's a limit to draw too. I don't approve of some of the blatant sexism going on in our field, but this is a little too much don't you think? If I tell someone I like boobs, should I issue a formal apology too? Should Microsoft issue a public apology to their cafeteria workers for using 0xBAADF00D? OpenSolaris for 0xDEFEC8ED?* They're hex strings ffs. Can we stop pretending we're so prude and perfect, call out…

For what it's worth I think it's been spun up to a bigger story than it needs to be. It should have been patched quietly and done and moved on. And there is a line to be drawn, females aren't sacred cows need smothering away, but it's a bit off handed to make sure your hex code spells something like big boobies, just reflects poorly on the industry.

I don't know the technical details, but it sounds like the purpose of the magic number is interacting windows programs with linux. Regardless of how accurate that is, unless the magic number is used only within 1 program (or maybe only withing Microsoft programs), changing it is going to cause problems.

Re: Microsoft fixes 'big boobs' coding gaffe

#45

Post by cgranade » Fri, Jul 20, 2012, 4:35 PM UTC

donall wrote: post #11

alexobenauer wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit bigger of an issue than that. There's nothing wrong with easter eggs, but the big issue here is that it is a sexist remark at a time when women are having a difficult time making it in many STEM fields, specifically software development, directly because of the actions like this that affect them in the workplace.

I doubt there was any sexist intent (regardless of perception). The fact is that there are a limited number of intelligible strings that can be made out of 8 hex chars and this is one of them that brought a smile to somebody's face. If we seriously consider that guy to be some sort of misogynist, then should we also consider OxDEADBEEF to be a radical vegan statement?

The fact that it was without intent indicates to me how poorly many people understand the effects of comments that objectify women's bodies. If there wasn't already a pre-existing culture in which women expect to find themselves judged for their bodies more than for their aptitude at their jobs, then 0xBI6B00B5 wouldn't matter so much. As it is, it serves to reinforce the existing perception (and unfortunately, the existing reality) that women are judged by different criteria from their male colleagues. Combine this with stereotype threat [1], and you get that the effects are decidedly harmful, even in the absence of sexist intent.

I doubt that removing the specific magic number in this case really helps much, though. Rather, I think that it is important to establish a standard that this kind of thing is not in keeping with professional standards or with human decency towards one's colleagues. Given that most people really do seem to mean well, having that awareness and empathy about the direct and indirect effects of seemingly innocuous choices like this can only help make programming a better career choice for all involved.

[1]: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/freethoughtblogs/butterfliesa...

Re: Microsoft fixes 'big boobs' coding gaffe

#46

Post by gizmo686 » Fri, Jul 20, 2012, 4:39 PM UTC

georgefox wrote: post #18

stavros wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goddamnit, I don't know what's sexist and what isn't any more. What if the message was 0xB1GD1CK (okay, there's no K in hex). Should men be offended?

Although I obviously understand how you formed your analogy, I just don't see how it's actually analogous. Software development is a male-dominated field, and the objectification of body parts is much more prevalent with women's breasts than with male genitalia. If we lived in a world where males felt uncomfortable working in software development environments due to repeated sexual harassment by their predominantly f…

So there is no problem with the hex string, there is a problem with the culture. I know, lets fix the hex string.

Introducing new gender discrimination, regardless of intentions, generally causes more gender discrimination. Also, doing it as a matter of policy could leave you open to a lawsuit.

Re: Microsoft fixes 'big boobs' coding gaffe

#47

Post by gizmo686 » Fri, Jul 20, 2012, 4:42 PM UTC

pwny wrote: post #22

stavros wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goddamnit, I don't know what's sexist and what isn't any more. What if the message was 0xB1GD1CK (okay, there's no K in hex). Should men be offended?

I encode my numbers in base 21, therefore I can use 0xB1GD1CK as a value. Anyone care to write an article about how sexist I am and shame my employer into a public apology? Sarcasm aside, we ARE facing an issue in the tech world. People that objectify women, discriminate against them or even so little as treat them differently in the workplace should be shamed. However, this crossed the line (imo). Statistics suggest…

base 21, why not use base 32?

Re: Microsoft fixes 'big boobs' coding gaffe

#48

Post by jack-r-abbit » Fri, Jul 20, 2012, 5:53 PM UTC

nicholassmith wrote: post #38

watty wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men have boobs too, and some men have big boobs (often referred to as moobs). This just shows that people can get angry at any and everything. Sexist? Only if you want it to be.

It's vaguely sexist, but primarily it's just really immature and smacks of the boys club mentality.

"Big Boobs" is not a boys club. Women are welcome. And many woman are into big boobs (either their own or those of others). What is sexist is to grip a notion that only men are capable of being immature or into big boobs. Not to mention that thinking women can't be into big boobs kind of sounds homophobic. Hey look... two can play the lets overreact and haphazardly toss around labels game. :)

Re: Microsoft fixes 'big boobs' coding gaffe

#49

Post by dromidas » Fri, Jul 20, 2012, 5:56 PM UTC

kzrdude wrote: post #32

dkhenry wrote: post #5

I find it funny that this is offensive to some people. I cringe that some of the silly names we have given internal code bits or projects might one day offend someone somewhere and need to have a formal apology. It's a good thing people can't get under the paint of their walls as it's common for construction workers to write notes and draw on unfinished sheetrock.

it is NOT about being offensive, it's about creating an environment welcoming for all.

Apparently it is not welcoming to the culture of nerdy developers that like big boobs. Which since most programmers are men, it sounds like you're letting the slowest sickest lamb in the herd get us all eaten by the lions of fun hating.

Re: Microsoft fixes 'big boobs' coding gaffe

#50

Post by tzs » Fri, Jul 20, 2012, 8:35 PM UTC

alexobenauer wrote: post #8

The mere fact that so many software developers don't see the big issue here is exactly the big issue.

The big issue I see is a bunch of men, most of whom have probably never actually worked with a woman in a STEM field, think they are experts on what such women would find offensive.