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I Won't Hire People Who Use Poor Grammar

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Re: I Won't Hire People Who Use Poor Grammar

#191

Post by gizmo686 »

nirvdrum wrote: post #85
irahul wrote: post #17

My train of thoughts: > Everyone who applies for a position at either of my companies, iFixit or Dozuki, takes a mandatory grammar test. Whoa. Who do you think you are - google? What makes you think I am going to sit through your grammar test? If I am agreeing to your grammar test, either you are one of the most desirable places to work for(never heard of you), or economy is about to collapse and this is the only job…

My issue is if you're unable to delineate between "it's" and "its" and it's the language you've been speaking natively for the past 25 years, I tend to doubt your ability to know what form of "const" to use in C++. At the very least, lack of proofreading suggests to me you might be rash with your code as well. Many disagree with me on this point of view, but routinely I've found that those that express themselves wel…

>"My issue is if you're unable to delineate between "it's" and "its" and it's the language you've been speaking natively for the past 25 years, I tend to doubt your ability to know what form of "const" to use in C++. At the very least, lack of proofreading suggests to me you might be rash with your code as well."

The difference is that const makes sense.

"Its" is the plural of "it", although we seem to use "they". "It's" is the possesive of "it", although we seem to use it as "it is". "It is" is proper English,although we tend to write it in slang "it`s". My use of punctuation respects the content of the quotations as the objects they are, although we seem to imply that "it" is spelled "it.".

Re: I Won't Hire People Who Use Poor Grammar

#192

Post by terryk88a »

irahul wrote: post #61
Sunlis wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's so bad about a grammar test? Any competent person (excluding extenuating circumstances: dyslexia, etc.) should be able to pass a simple grammar test. It's not some hardship that you have to study for or anything.

It's more like I am applying for a programming job, and I don't see why I have to subject myself to your whims. Consider that instead of grammar, I am advocating I will only hire people who can do 50 push-ups. After all, what can I expect from people who are sloppy towards something as important their own bodies. What's so bad about 50 push-ups? Any fit person(excluding extenuating circumstances) should be able to do…

Absolutely you do not have to subject yourself to his whims. You would be free to walk out the door if you found the grammar test offensive, or the push-ups test, or the rope-skipping test.

You do not deserve respect. Ever. You must always earn it.

Re: I Won't Hire People Who Use Poor Grammar

#193

Post by excuse-me »

stan_rogers wrote: post #182
Graham24 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tut, tut. "People with bad grammar should be hung".

It should be hanged , actually, when referring to capital punishment, except when drawing and quartering are involved. It's a quirk of the language; hung is correct in most circumstances.

Yes we know, that's what made the comment funny - now you've spoiled the joke.

Re: I Won't Hire People Who Use Poor Grammar

#195

Post by excuse-me »

gizmo686 wrote: post #191
nirvdrum wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My issue is if you're unable to delineate between "it's" and "its" and it's the language you've been speaking natively for the past 25 years, I tend to doubt your ability to know what form of "const" to use in C++. At the very least, lack of proofreading suggests to me you might be rash with your code as well. Many disagree with me on this point of view, but routinely I've found that those that express themselves wel…

>"My issue is if you're unable to delineate between "it's" and "its" and it's the language you've been speaking natively for the past 25 years, I tend to doubt your ability to know what form of "const" to use in C++. At the very least, lack of proofreading suggests to me you might be rash with your code as well." The difference is that const makes sense. "Its" is the plural of "it", although we seem to use "they". "I…

I would say mixing up its and it's is a sign of a good programmer!

Apostrophe-s means a possessive most of the time, so logically belonging to it should be it's. programmers like logic, if the English language happens to have case this wrong that's their problem!

Re: I Won't Hire People Who Use Poor Grammar

#196

Post by jiggy2011 »

benihana wrote: post #40

Oh please. I can understand not hiring someone who communicates poorly. That makes sense. But grammar is just a set of arbitrary rules that some person or group of people decided were correct. It's like a secret handshake that lets people know you're part of some smart boys club (by and large it seems like men are the only ones who enjoy bitching about grammar). To me, it says, "I went to a good school system and was…

"Oh please. I can understand not hiring someone who communicates poorly. That makes sense. But grammar is just a set of arbitrary rules that some person or group of people decided were correct. It's like a secret handshake that lets people know you're part of some smart boys club."

Sounds like every programming language syntax ever.

Re: I Won't Hire People Who Use Poor Grammar

#197

Post by excuse-me »

einhverfr wrote: post #133
praptak wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Combining "not" with "and" or "or" leads to ambiguity - there are no operator precedence rules in spoken language. I remember a "eating and drinking forbidden in the lab" notice with "not (eat or drink) == not eat or not drink" scribbled underneath (in math notation).

Also notice comma placement, which makes the citizenship requirement very interesting to try to parse. Is there anyone alive today who qualifies?

Which is why you should avoid commas in legal documents and especially patents

Re: I Won't Hire People Who Use Poor Grammar

#199

Post by adavies42 »

hythloday wrote: post #126

Just to illustrate what a morass "poor grammar" is, I have, wearing my ex-professional proofreader hat, gone through the article to highlight the areas where I could find fault with the article for incorrect usage. People Who Use Poor Grammar should be: People Who Use Grammar Poorly. I have a "zero tolerance approach" should be: I have a zero-tolerance approach. people who mix up their itses should be: people who mix…

proofreading to match a style guide is completely different from grammar. learn the difference between grammar and style....

Re: I Won't Hire People Who Use Poor Grammar

#200

Post by bguthrie »

kamaal wrote: post #145
bguthrie wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very much a cultural fit test. If people who use poor grammar are going to drive the author nuts, then as the the person running the company I think he's perfectly justified in treating the candidate as a poor cultural fit. Additionally, as someone who employs writers as well as programmers, he might reasonably want to hire a programmer who is also a writer for the same reason that you'd want to hire a progra…

>>In short, I don't see the problem. You don't see the problem because you look at it from a different direction. Hiring good programmers is already hard enough. And you are likely to hire a bad programmer despite having them run through many programming interview sessions. If you put all sorts of irrelevant criteria in between, you are likely to get people who have mastered the art of beating interviews by specializ…

I claim that the mathematics of hiring aren't all that different from the mathematics of beauty:

  http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-mathematics-of-beauty/
The OP generated a lot of strong negative reactions. But it also generated some strong positive reactions from programmers who share the author's frustrations and would enjoy working at a place where everyone punctuates impeccably. Like the author, my experience has been that programmers who care about language tend to write beautiful code.

I'm not looking for a job. But if I was, this article would make me more, not less, likely to apply.

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