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Palm did it: better experience than Apple

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Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#11

Post by chedigitz »

timae wrote: post #7

But Apple did it first, that counts for a lot. Palm's UI looks awesome, but it wouldn't be as cool if Apple didn't pave the way a bit. Not taking anything away, they did a much better job at building off of Apple's innovation than RIM did with the Storm (the phone I currently have - forced to stick with BlackBerry for work).

I agree. I'm extremely happy that Palm is back in the game. However you can't count apple out, the current iPhone is still 2 year old technology, and I expect the new incarnation to blow everything out of the water.

I still want a pre, since its a gorgeous UI.

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#12

Post by rbanffy »

swombat wrote: post #10

I hate to sound like an Apple fanboy, but you need more than a pretty phone to dethrone the iPhone. The App store is the best thing since sliced bread. The ever-growing developer enthusiasm for the iPhone is a huge factor too. And if webOS is basically web-based, that means that all of Palm's apps will be available on the iPhone, but none of the iPhone's apps will be available on the Palm Pre. Not exactly a winning p…

"And if webOS is basically web-based, that means that all of Palm's apps will be available on the iPhone, but none of the iPhone's apps will be available on the Palm Pre"

You are counting on webOS being nothing more than a WebKit browser. I am sure that's not the case.

I am also sure the iPhone is not the primary target the Pre is aimed at. There is a host of Windows Mobile, RIM and Symbian slightlycleverphones (it takes more than a qwerty keyboard to be a smartphone) that are pretty much in Palm's crosshairs.

And, sorry to say, you sound like an Apple fanboy ;-) I know. I sound like one very frequently.

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#13

Post by rbanffy »

chedigitz wrote: post #11
timae wrote: post #7

But Apple did it first, that counts for a lot. Palm's UI looks awesome, but it wouldn't be as cool if Apple didn't pave the way a bit. Not taking anything away, they did a much better job at building off of Apple's innovation than RIM did with the Storm (the phone I currently have - forced to stick with BlackBerry for work).

I agree. I'm extremely happy that Palm is back in the game. However you can't count apple out, the current iPhone is still 2 year old technology, and I expect the new incarnation to blow everything out of the water. I still want a pre, since its a gorgeous UI.

Apple is swimming in money. You really can't count them off. On the bright side (for Palm), Microsoft is swimming in money too and they accomplished little more than licensing a sub-par Windows CE thing to just about every maker of quasismartphones and crushing Palm in the process.

Never forget Palm owned the PDA market after crushing Apple out of it and created the smartphone market with the first Treos. They did a lot of things wrong, but with adequate funding and adequate brains, they can do a lot.

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#14

Post by misuba »

swombat wrote: post #10

I hate to sound like an Apple fanboy, but you need more than a pretty phone to dethrone the iPhone. The App store is the best thing since sliced bread. The ever-growing developer enthusiasm for the iPhone is a huge factor too. And if webOS is basically web-based, that means that all of Palm's apps will be available on the iPhone, but none of the iPhone's apps will be available on the Palm Pre. Not exactly a winning p…

All Scoble said was it had a better user experience. You can split hairs about whether app selection should be figured into UX - I think maybe it should - but that clearly isn't what Scoble means.

Being based on HTML and JS does not mean that Pre apps will be served up over HTTP. My bet is they get compiled like any app for iPhone or Android.

Bottom line: the article didn't say the Pre will "dethrone" the iPhone. Palm doesn't need it to; they just have to have a viable business. As of today, they do - I for one wouldn't have said that two days ago.

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#15

Post by jemmons »

rbanffy wrote: post #12
swombat wrote: post #10

I hate to sound like an Apple fanboy, but you need more than a pretty phone to dethrone the iPhone. The App store is the best thing since sliced bread. The ever-growing developer enthusiasm for the iPhone is a huge factor too. And if webOS is basically web-based, that means that all of Palm's apps will be available on the iPhone, but none of the iPhone's apps will be available on the Palm Pre. Not exactly a winning p…

"And if webOS is basically web-based, that means that all of Palm's apps will be available on the iPhone, but none of the iPhone's apps will be available on the Palm Pre" You are counting on webOS being nothing more than a WebKit browser. I am sure that's not the case. I am also sure the iPhone is not the primary target the Pre is aimed at. There is a host of Windows Mobile, RIM and Symbian slightlycleverphones (it t…

"You are counting on webOS being nothing more than a WebKit browser. I am sure that's not the case."

Even if it's not, the fact remains that apps written in HTML+CSS+javascript (what's more, HTML+CSS+JS tweaked to run on WebKit) will be trivial to port to the iPhone -- not just because the iPhone has a fantastic webkit browser, but because the apps themselves will be trivial.

The Pre, at best, will be a phone of widgets (I like your "slightly clever phone" moniker). I've made my share of widgets, and I know they can be both fun and useful. But after three months of game development on the iPhone, I would hang myself if I didn't have Cocoa. The Pre is going to see twenty versions of Lights Out, but you'll never see a Cro Mag or a Crayon Physics.

When people go on about the iPhone being a "computer in your pocket" they're talking about Cocoa its OS X underpinnings. Mojo and WebOS, at best, put safari in your pocket, and the iPhone already does that for cheaper.

Maybe you're right, and the Palm doesn't have the iPhone in its crosshairs. But I'm not sure how that helps them.

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#16

Post by jemmons »

"Palm’s bet on social networking integration is a game changer ... That is huge and not many people will get it."

Umm, how can a social anything be huge if not many people get it? The Zune wasn't just social, it was The Social -- and no one got it.

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#17

Post by jsdalton »

swombat wrote: post #10

I hate to sound like an Apple fanboy, but you need more than a pretty phone to dethrone the iPhone. The App store is the best thing since sliced bread. The ever-growing developer enthusiasm for the iPhone is a huge factor too. And if webOS is basically web-based, that means that all of Palm's apps will be available on the iPhone, but none of the iPhone's apps will be available on the Palm Pre. Not exactly a winning p…

I say this as an iPhone lover, but I think you might be jumping to conclusions prematurely.

Granted, the fact that that iPhone already has an awesome product in the market (version 2.0 at that) puts them light years ahead of the product demo Palm has at the trade show.

But just because something is miles ahead of current competition doesn't mean your safe forever. The iPhone has some serious weaknesses, including but not limited to:

* No background processing for third party apps * No cut/copy/paste * Restrictive application distribution

Okay, true, I could only think of three weaknesses (cause seriously, my iPhone is f'ing sweet), but if Palm could match them on the UI, best them on their weaknesses, and make a strong play for the corporate market, they could be on to something.

At a minimum it would be nice for Apple to sweat a bit so they finally get MOVING on the aforementioned weaknesses.

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#18

Post by rbanffy »

jemmons wrote: post #15
rbanffy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And if webOS is basically web-based, that means that all of Palm's apps will be available on the iPhone, but none of the iPhone's apps will be available on the Palm Pre" You are counting on webOS being nothing more than a WebKit browser. I am sure that's not the case. I am also sure the iPhone is not the primary target the Pre is aimed at. There is a host of Windows Mobile, RIM and Symbian slightlycleverphones (it t…

"You are counting on webOS being nothing more than a WebKit browser. I am sure that's not the case." Even if it's not, the fact remains that apps written in HTML+CSS+javascript (what's more, HTML+CSS+JS tweaked to run on WebKit) will be trivial to port to the iPhone -- not just because the iPhone has a fantastic webkit browser, but because the apps themselves will be trivial. The Pre, at best, will be a phone of widg…

Unless you have hooks for deeper functionality inside the JavaScript interpreter used to run the application logic. And I somewhat doubt Palm will refrain to release a full SDK for the native OS.

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#19

Post by bprater »

I love my iPhone. But giving developers the option to cook up apps in HTML/JS is a very slick move.

I don't know how it'll play out, but any average web developer will be able to immediately pump out an app without breaking open a iPhone SDK tome.

I don't know if it's possible to advance against the AppStore line of offense, but it's a seriously smart move.

I think their next coup should be to create an "open framework" so that other phone designers can latch on to whatever OS-specific hooks Palm plans on using.

I feel like this is critical. It can't be a closed framework.

Re: Palm did it: better experience than Apple

#20

Post by bprater »

rbanffy wrote: post #18
jemmons wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You are counting on webOS being nothing more than a WebKit browser. I am sure that's not the case." Even if it's not, the fact remains that apps written in HTML+CSS+javascript (what's more, HTML+CSS+JS tweaked to run on WebKit) will be trivial to port to the iPhone -- not just because the iPhone has a fantastic webkit browser, but because the apps themselves will be trivial. The Pre, at best, will be a phone of widg…

Unless you have hooks for deeper functionality inside the JavaScript interpreter used to run the application logic. And I somewhat doubt Palm will refrain to release a full SDK for the native OS.

How many hooks do you really need to get a developer up-and-running? File system access? Ability to play sounds?

AIR has a very limited set of extra javascript commands, but it is enough to give the developer the feeling they are definitely delivering a client-side app.

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