My experience with D&D and LLM is that is a cheat sheet and a great helper, specially for newbies like me, I'm a Dad of 4 that plays DnD to teach some lessons and to get my kids out of the screens
LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters
101–110 of 144 posts
Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters
#102The main problem with doing this on chatgpt is that it is _relentlessly_ cheerful and it's almost impossible for it to produce any kind of interpersonal drama or threat or danger. I tried to get it to run space opera about a diplomatic mission to a newly recontacted planet, full of Game of Thrones-style intrigue and plotting and scheming, and it was like playing with a cheerily optimistic new UN intern that completel…
Indeed. But for stuff like this, ChatGPT is overkill. It's better to get a dedicated RP finetune of LLaMA, Qwen, or some other open weights model (you can still run it in the cloud if you don't have hardware to do so locally). There are enough finetunes around by now that you can "dial in" how dark you want it, but for some examples:
https://huggingface.co/jukofyork/Dark-Miqu-70B
https://huggingface.co/SicariusSicariiStuff/Negative_LLAMA_7...
Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
> An LLM DM is exactly what could add that story, make overcoming challenges feel meaningful and allow for player decisions to actually impact the world deeply. No it's not. I don't think you're going to find an LLM with a large enough context window to have a meaningfully involving story spanning multiple sessions. An LLM isn't going to craft a story element tailored to a character, or more importantly, an individua…
> I don't think you're going to find an LLM with a large enough context window to have a meaningfully involving story spanning multiple sessions. First, you don't need much of any context window because you can finetune the LLM. Don't mistake specific engineering choices and tradeoffs and deployment convenience for intrinsic limitations of the technology. Second, LLMs like Gemini now have context windows of millions…
Have you actually used Gemini? I use it a lot for translation, and its context window is more like 150k tokens, rather than the 2M context window they say it has.
Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't think you're going to find an LLM with a large enough context window to have a meaningfully involving story spanning multiple sessions. First, you don't need much of any context window because you can finetune the LLM. Don't mistake specific engineering choices and tradeoffs and deployment convenience for intrinsic limitations of the technology. Second, LLMs like Gemini now have context windows of millions…
Have you actually used Gemini? I use it a lot for translation, and its context window is more like 150k tokens, rather than the 2M context window they say it has.
Be that as it may, long context window models which are good are not a mirage. By say late 2027, when the LLM providers figure out that they're using the wrong samplers, they will figure out how to get you 2 million output tokens per LLM call which stay coherent.
Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters
#105A good use for this is people wanting to try an RPG, but not having a bunch of people to do that with. A parent wanting to try out this D&D thing so he or she can run it with the kids, for example.
Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters
#106I found it to be a pretty OK first draft character creator, scene described and occasional lore/world builder. Not really anything more. Kinda a DM assistant more than a DM.
Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters
#107I've created two AI LLM D&D-style games. The second one will soon be released as a D&D-style game with Visual Novel elements (AI-generated images_. Here's how I can address some common concerns from comments above:
Lack of Human and Social Interactions: This is a significant drawback when you look it as the social thing, however, they require scheduling. For me I wanted to venture beyond the typical fantasy/sci-fi settings and good bored of those D&D/warhammer world.
LLM Versatility: LLMs can take you on wild (now non-NSFW) adventures. I wanted to play a D&D-style game set in the Venetian Renaissance and GPT delivered with accurate locations, families, and artists. It can do the same with medieval settings from my country, ancient Rome, surrealist landscapes, and whatever your favorite books, movies, or games involve.
Customization: Want a game master who replies in poetry, slang, in style of you favourite author? No problem.
Context: This is a tough one, but there are two approaches:
Retrieval-Augmented Generation (RAG)
Summarization, and then summarization of the summary. I've used this approach in my previous startup and in this game.
Characters: I utilised the randomness of different character styles. You might meet smart/beautiful/evil/good characters with predefined styles, and the LLM quite effectively supports roleplay.
Lack of Continuity: The biggest downside is the lack of continuity. Even if I generate a world and scenario, after a few rooms, it doesn't come together like a game would, where previous events feed into current ones, even when I provide again LLM with previous details. I kinda lack big picture design of story. I am working on that
Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
Two reasons: 1) "LLM DM" isn't merely mean substituting for human DM in a D&D session. The same capability can be used as a component in a video game, to breathe life into the game world, have it interactively react and evolve along with the player. EDIT: Take a game like Rimworld, that relies on a scripted RNG dubbed a "storyteller", to decide what random events to hit you with and how hard. It's fun early on, but i…
> An LLM DM is exactly what could add that story, make overcoming challenges feel meaningful and allow for player decisions to actually impact the world deeply. No it's not. I don't think you're going to find an LLM with a large enough context window to have a meaningfully involving story spanning multiple sessions. An LLM isn't going to craft a story element tailored to a character, or more importantly, an individua…
>I don't think you're going to find an LLM with a large enough context window to have a meaningfully involving story spanning multiple sessions
You don't need to provide every single previous information to llm, use LLM to summarise previous ones and it gets really compact. It works quite well.
Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
> An LLM DM is exactly what could add that story, make overcoming challenges feel meaningful and allow for player decisions to actually impact the world deeply. No it's not. I don't think you're going to find an LLM with a large enough context window to have a meaningfully involving story spanning multiple sessions. An LLM isn't going to craft a story element tailored to a character, or more importantly, an individua…
> I don't think you're going to find an LLM with a large enough context window to have a meaningfully involving story spanning multiple sessions. Sure you will. > An LLM isn't going to craft a story element tailored to a character, or more importantly, an individual player. Sure it is. > An LLM also doesn't really understand the game rules and isn't going to be able to adjudicate house rules based on fun factor. Sure…
I have solved it in my two games by using two systems in my future game:
1. LLM "text" info ,about world, player, text descriptions of world/decisions and so one.
2. Typical D&D stuff with rolls, names, details, decisions that are simple logic.
Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are a step on the road to fully responsive rpg worlds though, which don’t have to be text based.
It's been written at length here and elsewhere by game devs, but this isn't a thing that anyone would truly want. A purely AI generated or controlled world would have no constraints, and be fundamentally untestable - games aren't really games unless they have constraints. Even the 'purest' sandboxes have some kind of constraint buried within them, and I think you'd find an RPG of this type extremely boring, at least…
I mean this isn't it fun to generate ancient rome/alice in wonderland/medivial Poland kind of the world?