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I Switched to Firefox and Never Looked Back

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Re: I Switched to Firefox and Never Looked Back

#441
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The network effect kinda prevents you from finding coffee at an honest place. (The content is on YouTube and nowhere else) Until this changes and one can choose to go somewhere else, I wouldn't worry too much about the terrible cafe's income, because it is one of the richest entities in the world, it already shouldn't be that rich and powerful, and if it disappeared, it would finally let one go find coffee somewhere…

YouTube is hardly the only website on the Internet. And besides that, YouTube splits ad revenue 40/60 yt/creator anyway. So I suppose those creators are all in on the scheme too?

But the service is free. So I will watch (without ads) until it becomes paid. And then, it depends on whether the value is still there.

Re: I Switched to Firefox and Never Looked Back

#443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can fork but you likely cannot maintain Linux as-is. Where do the 1M hours/year come from? That's hard to do in free time. Maybe a question too radical for Hacker News, but why does Linux need 1M hours/year? How much "worse" would Linux be for the end user if this year, that time spent dropped to 100k or even 10k? And which "type" of Linux user was benefiting most from that time spent (person or corporation)? W…

A. How do you contribute to the kernel in a way that only benefits the contributing organization? That's quite literally impossible in this kind of project. Even the more niche stuff like virtualization support is used by homelab enthusiasts. It's also not like Linux has 100,000 APIs for every customer under the sun. B. Most of the effort goes into hardware enablement; CPUs, GPUs, power management, etc. Without corpo…

> Most of the effort goes into hardware enablement;

Which is why Linux is primarily corporate funded. The corporates want to sell their hardware. To sell their hardware they need to get it running on Linux, so they fund that. As hardware support constitutes most of the code contributions, most of the code that goes into Linux was because corporate actors made a decision to pay for it's development - purely in their own interests.

That's nice - this symbiosis between FOSS and corporates works well for both sides. But it's a stretch to say Linux would not exist today without it. The most you can say for certain is Linux would not have it's great hardware support without it. The BSD's don't get anything like the amount of corporate funding Linux does. They are doing fine, and notably work on common modern hardware. So could Linux even without corporate funding.

In particular, most of the interesting stuff that happens in the kernel, the stuff that determines what the kernel will look like in 10 years time, stuff like adopting Rust, is driven by people scratching itches in the FOSS tradition. Not all of it - pKVM is Google initiative. But eBPF was scratching an itch. Jens Axboe developed io_uring probably as a consequence of wanting storage to run faster at Meta - but it was definitely an itch of his. It's nice that Meta to paid him while he developed it, but saying its creation was "driven by corporate interests at Meta" is a bit of a stretch.

Re: I Switched to Firefox and Never Looked Back

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually agree with you that Linux development has been captured by corporations. Except that I believe it's not sustainable. Eventually the Shareholders are going to come knocking and ask why so much engineering time and money is being wasted on some hippie-dippy Open Source junk and not returning value to them. It needs AI in it, or maybe a Linux Pro subscription with ads for the freeloaders. This is why I'm glad…

You're assuming that community driven FOSS development is sustainable, or can make a good long term project the size of a kernel, or a multimedia package, or anything larger than a tool or library. In practice, I'm going to be honest and blunt, it's never worked. 3 decades of trying to replace Photoshop with GIMP (founded 1995)? Barely a dent. 3 decades of trying to unsettle Windows with the Linux desktop (KDE, 1998)…

> You're assuming that community driven FOSS development is sustainable

I'm confused. Is FOSS is something more than someone or some entity contributing their time and releasing the source for for free? Does it really matter if thing doing the development is a a person in a garage or a company?

There doesn't seem to be a lot of difference to me. Both a people in garages and a company have kept their pet projects going for decades, giving away their efforts over all that time. Both people in garages and and companies have lost interest in open source projects. As an example Debian is one of the longest lived open source projects on the planet. It is a community drive development. To me it looks likely it will outlast Ubuntu, which is a fork that isn't community driven.

The central tenants that make FOSS work don't seem to have much to do with whether it's community driven or not. Both can succeed. Yes, community driven efforts can fail. But so can corporate drive FOSS, as WordPress may well demonstrate.

Re: I Switched to Firefox and Never Looked Back

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Best of luck. I actually hope it works, but I'm not optimistic.

I'm pretty sure it won't, given that it hasn't worked so far for much worse stuff (like people implementing the panopticon at Palantir).

It's not possible to shame a group of people who can't even agree on baseline ethical issues around their profession. For every engineer who refuses to work on guided missiles or the Torment Nexus and would feel shame to do so, there's another engineer who would find it an interesting technical problem.

Re: I Switched to Firefox and Never Looked Back

#446
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the engineers making these decisions. They write the code they are told to write. Some middle manager / VP gets a promotion if they 'increase engagement', 'increase ad-spend', or some other hollow metric they chase. They are the ones deciding to send any 1-3 star ratings to customer support, and 4-5 ratings recorded as an actual rating. It's not about the users at all. It's about gaming the system for some m…

I am not a person who normally moralizes to others, but I can say I have quit jobs where I found the work to be unethical or that company policies required me to bend my ethics. The engineers implement all of the "features" that these management types decide on. I understand there are infinite engineers so eventually the features will get implemented, but I do not blame the managers alone for tasks done by unethical…

Same here. Ultimately, the engineer is the one typing in the code and hitting submit. They are at the very least complicit and need to at least share responsibility.

Re: I Switched to Firefox and Never Looked Back

#447
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, pretty much. While I don't concur with Mozilla 100% of the time, it is still the only major browser that I can have control (e.g.: by still having Manifest V2 extensions available). Also most of controversial choices in Firefox can be disabled or changed in `about:config`.

What about the choice not to optimize for battery efficiency on my Mac?

Safari have only 2 platforms (actually one since they share pretty much the same kernel and much of the user space code) to support vs Firefox needs to support 4 (macOS, Android, Linux and Windows). I would be surprised if Firefox was the most battery efficient browser on macOS.

Re: I Switched to Firefox and Never Looked Back

#448
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for those who do actually feel they want to separate their extensions and passwords and such as well, there's a Profiles revamp coming up that's looking really good in Nightly: https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/here-s-what-we-re... But yes, people should learn about Multi-Account Containers if they haven't, yet. It's a killer feature that no other browser has. This is the extension to enable the UI for i…

Safari has recently added Profiles which are very similar: https://support.apple.com/en-us/105100 OTOH Vivaldi guys said that much as they'd like to implement this, they're unable to due to some architectural issues with Blink. So basically no Blink browser will have that unless and until Google decides to do it in Chrome - which seems unlikely given their incentives.

Chrome supports multiple profiles

https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/2364824

Re: I Switched to Firefox and Never Looked Back

#449

Firefox is guilty of every single thing Chrome is accused of. * It includes advertisements in the New Tab page without user consent https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/sponsor-privacy * It shared browsing history without user consent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliqz#Integration_with_Firefox * It enabled a new tracking protocol for advertisers without user consent https://blog.mozilla.org/netpolicy/2024/08/22/ppa-…

> Firefox is guilty of every single thing Chrome is accused of

If you misrepresent what Chrome is "accused" of, sure. I have 0 attachment to Firefox as a permanent solution, but it's WAY better than Chrome on every issue, and the only thing Servo has over Firefox is it hasn't existed in a usable form long enough to push the same kind of updates.

If you disabled updating in Firefox today, you would have a more complete version of Servo that is just as private and secure. You may not like Mozilla as a company, but Firefox is the best tech option for open source web browsing and it's not even close. That's why browsers like Librewolf that just barely tweak Firefox are possible.

I have to address these issues, though, because your descriptions of them really bury the lede.

> It includes advertisements in the New Tab page without user consent

> It shared browsing history without user consent

> It enabled a new tracking protocol for advertisers without user consent

While the ad tracking is not great, everything you posted is opt-out. I know you take specific issue with being automatically included as "opt-in" on update, but you don't even have the option to opt-out of everything in Chrome.

> It blocked uBlock Lite from their store without notice

That was a mistake remedied very quickly. Contrast that with Chrome where Ublock is now broken. Raymond Hill is the person speaking in your link, and he still explicitly recommends Firefox in his releases.

> It's ~80% funded by Google

And? That Google has money to throw around (and most privacy zealots specifically won't fund anything) is not a mark against Firefox. There's nothing to indicate Firefox is controlled by Google, and you may be surprised to know a lot of these competitors fund each others OSS because some of the tech is critical infrastructure.

> Their main focus lately has been white-labelling dubious products

I have to ask, are you reading these links or getting them from a friend? This was also opt-out, and as soon as this information was discovered, Mozilla immediately dropped them. You make it sound like they knew about this and powered through. Should they drop their partnership with haveibeenpwned on the off-chance they might secretly own an ad company?

[1] https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/releases/tag/1.62.1b1

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