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Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

theguardian.com

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Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#271

Post by [deleted] »

gruez wrote: post #170
d4704 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if migrants commit crimes at a lower rate than the local population, unless it's exactly zero, it'll still increase the crime rate. But that assumes you do not count the person who commit the crime as part of the population count. In this example, “crime per capita” goes down if they commit crime below the average crime rate of population before they joined that population.

>But that assumes you do not count the person who commit the crime as part of the population count. Sorry, meant to say "crime count", or more precisely, "native victimization count". Natavists by definition prioritize the native population over immigrants, so if some native got victimized by a migrant, I doubt a natavist would be convinced by "well actually, even though there was one extra crime committed by a migra…

[deleted]

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#272

Post by kasey_junk »

Retric wrote: post #254
kasey_junk wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities typically don’t have draconian taxes on real estate.

~0.1% of real estate. If the major concern is these rules change nothing then that applies to both upsides and downsides.

No the issue with activities that constrain supply is that they might constrain more supply than the explicit units impacted by the policy.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#273

Post by Retric »

kasey_junk wrote: post #272
Retric wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~0.1% of real estate. If the major concern is these rules change nothing then that applies to both upsides and downsides.

No the issue with activities that constrain supply is that they might constrain more supply than the explicit units impacted by the policy.

This very slightly constrains demand not supply.

At most the knock on effects might impacts supply, but that’s up to the market to decide.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#274

Post by kasey_junk »

Retric wrote: post #273
kasey_junk wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No the issue with activities that constrain supply is that they might constrain more supply than the explicit units impacted by the policy.

This very slightly constrains demand not supply. At most the knock on effects might impacts supply, but that’s up to the market to decide.

The impact on the market is precisely the concern. I’ve not seen any studies that show how taxing market participants differently impacts the supply in real estate. So I don’t have strong convictions one way or the other. But you can craft a narrative that foreign buyers are higher margin customers so drive builders to create at higher then their participation rate.

But more generally if you want more of something, generally I’m suspicious of efforts that make that thing more expensive.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#275

Post by Retric »

kasey_junk wrote: post #274
Retric wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This very slightly constrains demand not supply. At most the knock on effects might impacts supply, but that’s up to the market to decide.

The impact on the market is precisely the concern. I’ve not seen any studies that show how taxing market participants differently impacts the supply in real estate. So I don’t have strong convictions one way or the other. But you can craft a narrative that foreign buyers are higher margin customers so drive builders to create at higher then their participation rate. But more generally if you want more of something, g…

You’re simply ignoring scale here.

Having what in practice is probably 1 in ~5,000 fewer customers has negligible impact on a housing market. That’s assuming many foreigners who would be buying a 3rd home will probably substitute longer term rentals but it’s not zero and from the perspective of customers any movement is positive here.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#276

Post by ryan_lane »

sadeshmukh wrote: post #260
ryan_lane wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What that foreign capital also does is lower risk and thus capital costs for development and improvement." Not a theoretical argument. An assertion.

I mean, I can see a reason provided. Isn't that the whole point of foreign direct investing? That's more than an assertion - that's why I call it a theoretical argument. There's no need to debate semantics.

For a lot of foreign investment, the point is to hide money. A lot of investment provides negative value. Hidden money in residential real estate inflates the market and in most of these cases they also leave the units vacant, reducing housing stock. In some cases it isn't to hide money, but instead for speculation, and usually in those cases they also leave the units vacant, because occupied units can reduce value, and in those cases it's also reduced stock and inflated markets.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#277

Post by JambalayaJimbo »

iforgot22 wrote: post #263
JambalayaJimbo wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the only reason you see for home ownership price appreciation? This mentality is what’s wrong with speculative real estate!

Yes. I don't know how you can buy something and hold it for decades without calling that "speculation."

You buy it so you can live in it, I am also not speculating when I buy a cabinet that I also hope to keep for decades.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#278

Post by bdangubic »

iforgot22 wrote: post #267
x0xrx wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not see how insane it is to at once 1) demand cheap housing and 2) demand it increases in price at breakneck pace?

Exactly, it's like complaining that gold is unfairly expensive. Those lucky Boomers got to purchase it at $40/oz in 1970 ($350/oz in 2025 money), now it's $2600/oz. I should be allowed to buy gold for $350/oz so I can profit like they did.

in 2050 when it is $13,764/oz kids will be complaining you got to buy it for $2,600

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#279

Post by est31 »

motorest wrote: post #239
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every foreigner buying a house still results in 1 less house for Spaniards In a very limited scope, sure. What that foreign capital also does is lower risk and thus capital costs for development and improvement. (In the event of a limited crisis, for lenders as well.) Whether the net effect goes one way or another is more complicated than what you describe. Put another way, if foreigners could only buy unbuilt unit…

> Put another way, if foreigners could only buy unbuilt units, would you still say they're resulting in fewer houses for Spaniards? Do the countries shunned by foreign investors have affordable housing? Exactly, and to further drive the point home the real estate investments driven by foreign investment are targeting entirely different markets, such as luxury homes and tourism, whereas the complains about lack of acc…

Often, very often, foreign investment is directly correlated with tourism-gentrification, aka driving out the poor working class people from some location, because it looks "authentic" and is centrally located, into ugly looking places at the outskirts of the city.

But this can happen whether people from outside buy it or not. As long as there is demand for tourism, and some countries are richer than others, this will happen.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#280

Post by iforgot22 »

JambalayaJimbo wrote: post #277
iforgot22 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I don't know how you can buy something and hold it for decades without calling that "speculation."

You buy it so you can live in it, I am also not speculating when I buy a cabinet that I also hope to keep for decades.

Living in a house doesn't consume it along with the land, hence the investment appeal. You can rent a house if you just want to live in it. I would totally rent a cabinet if that were a thing, but it's not because the value goes to 0 quickly.
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