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Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

arstechnica.com

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Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#91

Post by ourmandave »

caminante wrote: post #65
ziddoap wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to post this investigation by Mozilla's "Privacy Not Included" whenever car privacy comes up, because it is actually horrendous. https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-... > Mozilla’s latest edition of Privacy Not Included reveals how 25 major car brands collect and share deeply personal data, including sexual activity, facial expressions, and genetic and health information

Sex? How do they triangulate that from car telemetry?...blood pressure/heart rate signatures from face? Suspension rocking in a park at night? Maybe they pull it from your phone. I don't trust the manufacturers, but Kia seems to have said they have the right to collect sex info, but haven't. [0] > “To clarify, Kia does not and has never collected “sex life or sexual orientation” information from vehicles or consumers…

“For every GM vehicle, before any connected vehicle services are activated and before any data is ever collected, the vehicle owner must accept the OnStar Terms & Conditions and Privacy Statement. These detail our data practices and are available online for consumers to review before they even walk into a dealership.”

It's all spelled out in an 4pt light grey font that you clicked through without reading. So it's your fault we know you're pregnant before you do.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#92

Post by koolba »

Scoundreller wrote: post #71
nickburns wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much money do you estimate you've actually saved using GasBuddy?

At least in my area, it’s helped me realize which city I’m usually in typically has the best prices and realized that prices tend to go up during the day and drop late in the evening. There’s about a 13% difference between the cheapest and most expensive at the moment.

You don’t even need to install anything, just save the link to the map view: https://www.gasbuddy.com/gaspricemap?lat=34.188030028165215&...

Or forget it all and go straight to Costco.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#93

Post by teeray »

wbl wrote: post #9
rs999gti wrote: post #5

This is Allstate, the house, trying to maintain their edge over their customers, the players. If they get additional info that tells them you are an unsafe driver, then their odds of you not getting into an accident diminish and their goes their premiums, the bets. Yah yah insurance reduces risks instead of adding it like gambling, but the analogies are still there.

I like it when unsafe drivers pay the costs of the way they endanger all of us.

We all do. However, the false premise here is that this data is able to reliably classify drivers into "safe" and "unsafe". If you brake hard, you might save a pedestrian's life. If you don't brake at all, you will kill them. This data lacks context for driver actions to reliably perform that classification. Also, it is also not subject to any kind of appeal where you can bring such other context and facts to bear on the determination if it determines you are "unsafe".

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#94

Post by caminante »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #14

This is your friendly reminder that the insurance industry does not generally make money on underwriting. In other words they are losing money on insuring you. Typically the costs of the insurance side of the business are greater than their revenue from premiums. This typically means that insurance actually is a good deal on net. They make their money on investing the float. They can only do that if they attract prem…

Generally agree about InsuranceCos, but I don't think your claim is true about profitability of core insurance operations.

Their combined ratios (insurance payouts + expenses / premiums collected) are closely tracked by investors and if they're creeping up to 100% without a systemic reason that affects all InsuranceCos, they get a lot of scrutiny.

Here's just one lens [0] for home insurance going back to 2004 (~20 years). It appears that the combined ratios were under 100% for ~8 years.

[0] https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights...

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#95

Post by zerotolerance »

miohtama wrote: post #4

It makes sense to share your data with an insurance provider if you are a well-behaved driver. It is well-behaved drivers that subside the insurance cost of reckless drivers.

Ah, the old "if you have nothing to hide you should let us surveil and search you as much as we want" argument.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#96

Post by s1artibartfast »

lief79 wrote: post #77
nemomarx wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you could argue that driving near deer at all is still more risk of accidents and damage to the car than a driver who never goes out of their suburb?

Deer are common in many suburbs.

Then it seems reasonable to charge people who live in those suburbs more.

I think they key sticking points are 1) Why isnt aggregate claim data good enough for this purpose? 2) Do we prefer erroneous risk estimation from bad personal profiles over erroneous risk estimation from group averages.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#97

Post by Scoundreller »

koolba wrote: post #92
Scoundreller wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in my area, it’s helped me realize which city I’m usually in typically has the best prices and realized that prices tend to go up during the day and drop late in the evening. There’s about a 13% difference between the cheapest and most expensive at the moment.

You don’t even need to install anything, just save the link to the map view: https://www.gasbuddy.com/gaspricemap?lat=34.188030028165215&... Or forget it all and go straight to Costco.

> go straight to Costco

No way, I value my time tyvm.

At locations near me, I swear one spouse goes in to shop for 2h while the other waits in line for gas for as much of that 2h as they can.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#98

Post by MrDrMcCoy »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #68
throw5959 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, how? Why would someone have a vehicle with someone else's internet connected camera inside?

Why would society not mandate cameras to make sure the operators of thousands of kilograms of metal at high speeds are paying attention to the road instead of their phone? And to be able to punish them if they are not. Assuming pedestrian and children’s safety is a priority.

That can and should be done without phoning home. It's the invasion of privacy that's the issue, not the safety feature itself.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#99

Post by hnpolicestate »

Semi related. Mazda won't let me utilize remote starting the car unless I opt into connected services and the MyMazda app.

The TOS for both services disclose selling my driving information to 3rd parties including insurance companies and law enforcement.

So I'm effectively being punished by Mazda for not submitting to their data harvesting scam.

Re: Allstate used GasBuddy and other apps to track driving behavior: lawsuit

#100

Post by s1artibartfast »

drawkward wrote: post #86
bradleybuda wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The insurance companies are betting their margins on this. If they are wrong, they will fail in the marketplace.

oh yes, please tell us about this imaginary perfect marketplace. where does it exist?

a perfect one doesn't, but you would be just as crazy to think that no market place exists either.

Insurance companies do in fact compete on rates.

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