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LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters

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Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters

#21

Post by mirages »

Aeolun wrote: post #2

Based on my experiences with this. Keeping context relevant is the hardest part. Your human GM will remember that funny remark from the session 3 years ago, but the LLM?

Also for that same module, is it able to integrate it in a broader campaign. I expanded the lore and why the players got here with extra quests, fluff and mystery and they only reached said dungeon at 2nd session only.

Also the way a PC died due to a rat bite that could only be cured by magic (5e of this module is ironically harsher than the 3.5) as he was losing max HP every 24H. As the players expressed dislike with that character the owning player was willing to go for a new character and I had planned a big drama scene where the players exit in emergency the dungeon and try to rally the nearet village where there's a priestessd and happens that I could match the rolls so he would die in the priestess hands.

But I made the mistake to allow them to spend the night to get their 3rd level which would have allowed the druid to get his cure illnesses spell botching the set up.

Happens that I decided to exploit the fact that all other character the previous days made an offering to Beshaba to curse that character and force rolls during night (and try to find a way to make the new character come into play).

How it unfolded : - they were sleeping and it was the bard's turn for watch

- the bard was a follower of Tharizdun and was about to sacrifice the dieing character as said character was agonizing

- the new character was a Kara-turian enforcer that was chasing a yokai (he didn't knew) that used other people as disguise, made it happen that the yokai choose the dieing character "by coincidence" appearance

- the yokai being chased opens a portal while hiding to the dungeon

- the new character litteraly pops through a Wild Magic portal that pushed away the bard and tries to bash the old character as the old character runes on his skin glow a last time as he dies and repels everybody

- made the new character pop naked as I wasn't paying attention to what the player was saying when he was listing his inventory

- I let them handle the big mess

Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters

#22

Post by Deukhoofd »

Using a fine-tuned GPT-3.5 model is definitely a choice, why not pick one of the newer models? The methodology only states they use "ChatGPT" as LLM, but doesn't clarify the model until way later, nor why they picked that model over other existing models.

The methodology also barely explains how they did their baseline experiments with human DMs. Did they do them face-to-face, or via text? Did they have different DMs in the 3 games they used as baseline, or was it the same person? As it stands the research is barely reproducible.

Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters

#23

Post by ge96 »

2099miles wrote: post #3

This is so interesting that people want this. This is beyond the guy saying “people don’t like making music so we made ai so it’s easier and faster to just prompt it to make music” . Like in my experience the best part of d&d is the dungeon master who knows their friends making a story and details specifically for fun and the fun of the group. And the interactions between players and the dm is where I derived the mos…

I was watching a video on YT, heard a cool song, tried to soundhound it, turns out it was an AI generated song, I felt like I was "owned" damn.

Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters

#24

Post by pmichaud »

prettyblocks wrote: post #8
2099miles wrote: post #3

This is so interesting that people want this. This is beyond the guy saying “people don’t like making music so we made ai so it’s easier and faster to just prompt it to make music” . Like in my experience the best part of d&d is the dungeon master who knows their friends making a story and details specifically for fun and the fun of the group. And the interactions between players and the dm is where I derived the mos…

I think it's more about the challenge/curiosity of creating the implementation. I'm not sure these AI driven text-RPGs will find long term audiences.

They are a step on the road to fully responsive rpg worlds though, which don’t have to be text based.

Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters

#25

Post by JohnMakin »

2099miles wrote: post #3

This is so interesting that people want this. This is beyond the guy saying “people don’t like making music so we made ai so it’s easier and faster to just prompt it to make music” . Like in my experience the best part of d&d is the dungeon master who knows their friends making a story and details specifically for fun and the fun of the group. And the interactions between players and the dm is where I derived the mos…

> This is so interesting that people want this

I love being a DM but it is no mystery to me. Being a DM is a lot of work. And occasionally, a lot of annoyance. You not only have to facilitate (and sometimes create from scratch) an engaging story that keeps people coming back, you have to wrangle busy schedules and personalities that is often annoying. Lots of times you'll have a bunch of people willing to play, but no one willing to DM. So to me it's not surprising at all, and I experimented with AI in running a game, and quickly concluded it could never be good at it because it's so insanely suggestible and has poor memory.

Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters

#26

Post by Kuinox »

Aeolun wrote: post #2

Based on my experiences with this. Keeping context relevant is the hardest part. Your human GM will remember that funny remark from the session 3 years ago, but the LLM?

Neuro-sama, an AI VTuber streamer, manages to do this. There are topics brought along multiple streams and manages to remember details of previous streams.

Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters

#27

Post by empath75 »

erehweb wrote: post #18
empath75 wrote: post #13

The main problem with doing this on chatgpt is that it is _relentlessly_ cheerful and it's almost impossible for it to produce any kind of interpersonal drama or threat or danger. I tried to get it to run space opera about a diplomatic mission to a newly recontacted planet, full of Game of Thrones-style intrigue and plotting and scheming, and it was like playing with a cheerily optimistic new UN intern that completel…

Reminiscent of the Twilight Zone episode where a criminal ends up in the afterlife. Spoilers in link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Nice_Place_to_Visit

The old gpt2 engine that used to drive AI Dungeon had the opposite problem, it was obviously trained on a ton of really bad fan fiction and would frequently either shift into filthy erotica or some kind of hyper violent serial killer story, no matter how innocently the story started.

Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters

#28

Post by noufalibrahim »

This is fascinating.

I don't have any experience with D&D but wanted to learn it to play it with my kids. I used claude to learn the basic rules and then had it help me create the scenario. Then I played as the dm while it simulated being the players and then vice versa.

Really nice experience

Re: LLM based agents as Dungeon Masters

#30

Post by JohnMakin »

pmichaud wrote: post #24
prettyblocks wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more about the challenge/curiosity of creating the implementation. I'm not sure these AI driven text-RPGs will find long term audiences.

They are a step on the road to fully responsive rpg worlds though, which don’t have to be text based.

It's been written at length here and elsewhere by game devs, but this isn't a thing that anyone would truly want. A purely AI generated or controlled world would have no constraints, and be fundamentally untestable - games aren't really games unless they have constraints. Even the 'purest' sandboxes have some kind of constraint buried within them, and I think you'd find an RPG of this type extremely boring, at least with current technology.
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