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43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

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Re: 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

#31
post #23

In addition to the obvious improvements to pedestrian safety with less vehicles on the road. Air quality in these areas is going to improve vastly. This needs to be implemented in every major metropolitan area.

San Francisco "thought about it" as far back as 2019 and couldn't get their act together to pull it off:

https://www.sfcta.org/downtown

I'm guessing that Uber and other car based services all threatened to stop funding their re-election campaigns if they did it.

Re: 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

#32

Some numbers don’t make sense here… They’re saying a 7% reduction is 43k cars, which infers 550k daily trips into the city. But they think they can make $500M/year. At $9 per trip, that’s only 150k tolls daily. (500M / 365 / $9). In any case, I’m glad it seems to be working. Congestion pricing has the potential to do a lot of good in this country.

There is a number of driver categories that pay somehow less to enter. Also I suppose they predict that the number of daily trips will keep going down, and so will the revenue with it.

Re: 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

#33

Some numbers don’t make sense here… They’re saying a 7% reduction is 43k cars, which infers 550k daily trips into the city. But they think they can make $500M/year. At $9 per trip, that’s only 150k tolls daily. (500M / 365 / $9). In any case, I’m glad it seems to be working. Congestion pricing has the potential to do a lot of good in this country.

you mean implies not infers.

You infer, they imply.

Re: 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

#34
post #8

When I see things like: > Bus speeds also increased after the tolls were turned on. The Manhattan-bound B39 bus, which crosses the Williamsburg Bridge, ran 28% faster compared to a similar January week last year. Other buses like the SIM24 and and the M50 saw increases in speeds, as well. I wonder how much cherry picking there is. Did they give the B39 because it's the most improved? Or for some other reason (especia…

We will get better stats as the data rolls in over the next several months, but is very unlikely this is cherry picked or unrepresentative of the broad benefits of less congestion.

In fact, I anticipate the city to expand dedicated bus lanes and bus frequency to take advantage of the reduced car traffic. Bike lanes too. Mass transit should steadily improve over the next year as enhancements made possible by less cars are deployed.

Re: 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

#35

[flagged]

This comment is a good example of the type of narrow minded progressive thinking that has held back good public policy like congestion pricing and carbon taxes. Both of these programs are criticized as being regressive. The criticism neglects to take into consideration the society wide benefits like more efficient bus travel or cleaner air that preferentially help the less well off.

I agree with your rebuttal in response to that other person's comment, but ultimately I do think those programs are regressive for the poor, at this very point in time.

I guess the question becomes, should those poorest suffer for the betterment of all future generations? I would personally say no.

Re: 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

#37

[flagged]

this is totally true - subsidizing the rich by the poor I always thought congestion pricing was always mis-priced, and it should be tied to income/wealth. The only way to do this is to let the poor apply and get free electronic tokens and get that missing 43k back. fyi - my MD can easily manage a 10x the mid-town tolls

Should everything be tied to income/wealth? Taxes and college tuition are already tied to income/wealth. Why not food, housing, travel, clothes, healthcare, even drinking water? At that point wealth will stop to have any meaning.

Re: 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

#38
Roads in cities are such a waste of space. A long time ago I did a quick survey of SF and found something like 20% of the land was dedicated to cars. Some articles from people here that talk about this [1] [2] [3]. That is the most subsidized land on the planet but people don't think of it that way. They think roads are free so any tax to use them is wrong. That space could be helping out the city in so many ways but instead it is just ugly pavement. Yes we need some roads, but cars driving in the heart of downtown as normal transit? It boggles my mind how dumb that is. Raise this tax until basically nobody is using the roads then rip most of them up except maintenance corridors and put that land to use.

[1] https://www.sfmta.com/press-releases/sfmta-completes-citywid...

[2]https://thehill.com/changing-america/resilience/smart-cities...

[3] https://sf.streetsblog.org/2014/11/03/study-quantifies-how-u...

Re: 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

#39

[flagged]

You could have progressive congestion pricing based on the value of the car. I didn't look at it, but what I think you're saying is that this is a regressive pricing control. I think that's an important point: regressive taxes/fines shouldn't be used to control behavior as it disproportionately impacts the less affluent* But a progessive scheme is more involved - it might require using the value of the car for exampl…

There are reduced rates people can apply for. Agreed though, I think tolls, traffic tickets, and parking tickets should all be baselined against the KBB value of the car.

Re: 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on

#40
I think an issue with this kind of policy (not necessarily in Manhattan) but in other cities is that often there is no alternative other than to drive to the city.

For example, my partner needs radiation for her cancer and the hospital is located in the city. There is no other option than to drive. I feel like this type of policy negatively affects people in this situation, with no other alternative.

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