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Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

theguardian.com

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Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#201

Post by floxy »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #146
floxy wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that because: A.) There is significant overlap between Brexiteers and those with enough extra wealth to afford vacation / second homes in Spain. Is there any way to quantify this? I would have thought that those with a nationalistic bent wouldn't be keen to own homes in foreign lands. Plus I had the impression that the Remainers were more towards the urban, wealthy, citizen-of-the-world types who would at first bl…

There is a notable amount of "expats" who permanently moved to Spain under freedom of movement, then voted for Brexit and then were angry that Spain/EU started to treat them as foreigners. How many hundred that are I don't know, but they made "fun" news stories during those times.

>How many hundred that are I don't know, but they made "fun" news stories during those times.

Seems like every human story then. The few-and-far-between exceptions get magnified by 100-1000 times their actual significance by people on the other side.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#202

Post by ajb »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #121
ajb wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sort of thing is a bit risky. One company I followed was bought out by a US vehicle owned by a Chinese investor, and then everything ground to a halt because (it appears[1]) the local agent fraudulently changed the bank accounts into their own name and locked out the owner. Operating stuff in a foreign legal jurisdiction is hard. [1] this seems to have been the judgement of the court, but not all the fillings ar…

> the local agent fraudulently changed the bank accounts into their own name and locked out the owner This sounds like a front more than a nominee. A front legally owns the company and has a side deal with someone conferring control. It's pretty much straight-up fraud. A nominee is similar to a Delaware registered agent; you pay a law firm or whatever a few hundred euro a year to be your glorified P.O. Box

I'm not really sure what the technical details were.

This is the complaint, in case anyone is curious: https://trellis.law/doc/159246087/complaint-case-initiation-... Although obviously that's only from one side.

If may be that it's less risky if there's a common service such as you describe, since the operator will prefer to keep their business going. But if significant assets are involved it may still be somewhat risky.

(This was the company that supposedly ended up with the IP of the Kestrel aircraft, formerly owned by Alan Klapmeier and originated by Richard Noble as the Farnborough F1)

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#203

Post by Gvaskas »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #195
Gvaskas wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> over being called 'racist' by hateful strangers Straw man [1]. You're the only one in this thread levelling this charge. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[flagged]

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#204

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Gvaskas wrote: post #203
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> over being called 'racist' by hateful strangers Straw man [1]. You're the only one in this thread levelling this charge. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[flagged]

> What other motivation do they have for selling out their own family and people then?

Not wanting to be the next Venezuela, for one. Reflexive protectionism is emotionally satisfying. It rarely delivers the promised relief.

I could absolutely see such a tax e.g. taking out a small Spanish bank or two, or, at best, knocking out develoopers' financing such that new-home construction contracts. More likely: it becomes the only thing this government can work on as Spain gets mired in years of EU litigation.

> It is trendy to participate in the destruction of your own descendants' homelands and future

To the extent anyone is trend following, it's the populists making these sort of black-and-white claims. Again, you're the only one arguing against this imagined anti-racist commenter. Policy written to annoy an imagined foe is going to be predictably bad.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#205

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ajb wrote: post #202
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the local agent fraudulently changed the bank accounts into their own name and locked out the owner This sounds like a front more than a nominee. A front legally owns the company and has a side deal with someone conferring control. It's pretty much straight-up fraud. A nominee is similar to a Delaware registered agent; you pay a law firm or whatever a few hundred euro a year to be your glorified P.O. Box

I'm not really sure what the technical details were. This is the complaint, in case anyone is curious: https://trellis.law/doc/159246087/complaint-case-initiation-... Although obviously that's only from one side. If may be that it's less risky if there's a common service such as you describe, since the operator will prefer to keep their business going. But if significant assets are involved it may still be somewhat r…

> if significant assets are involved it may still be somewhat risky

No more than any asset in the EU. A nominee can steal your property about as easily as any notary.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#207

Post by surgical_fire »

WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #129
louison11 wrote: post #122

Blaming foreigners for housing prices is misdirected. The real culprit is slow bureaucracy & zoning laws making it impossibly slow to get a permit to build anything in both Spain and Portugal. Both of these countries for example have so many abandoned houses needing to be renovated, and so many foreigners coming in with money to do it - but they can never do it because you can't get a permit in literally forever... I…

No, that argument assumes you can only blame 1 thing at a time. Even if the bureaucracy is the worst offender, every foreigner buying a house still results in 1 less house for Spaniards. Sure, fix bureaucracy, but don't pretend foreign purchases have zero effect.

> Even if the bureaucracy is the worst offender, every foreigner buying a house still results in 1 less house for Spaniards.

Just to be pedantic, it's not about foreigners buying property, it is about non-resident buying properties.

A foreigner that actually resides in Spain would not be taxed, if I understand correctly.

I don't think that limiting property ownership to residents is a bad thing. I do think, however, that it will not have that much impact in the properties the average people actually need and want.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#208

Post by iforgot22 »

bdangubic wrote: post #199
iforgot22 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why this is better than people renting and investing their savings elsewhere, which is how it works with apartments anyway. So you own a house, it makes basically no return, now what?

where exactly does a house make no return, especially in say last decade/15 years? I bought three houses in the last 20 years, one doubled, one up 70% and one 40% (still occupying it)

In the US, not many places. But that's the complaint from some people.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#209

Post by OJFord »

qball wrote: post #172
OJFord wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok - I'm not Canadian, idk what ALR is - I'm just saying what's disagreed with up-thread isn't what, in my experience, is the common claim (whether it's correct or not).

The Agricultural Land Reserve prohibits farmland from being sold for housing development. It's one of the oldest modern NIMBY policies. Most of the land in BC is classified in this way.

Well that's not obviously bad I don't think? If Canadians want to be mad about pro-farm regulation, they should look to dairy; milk tokens, cheese availability, etc.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#210

Post by nozzlegear »

inetknght wrote: post #185
nozzlegear wrote: post #7

Just tax land value.

> Just tax land value. Another great way to kick out the undesirables^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpoor!

That's valid criticism, it can certainly lead to that if implemented poorly. However, two of the goals of taxing land value are A) increasing the supply of housing and B) discouraging speculative land hoarding — one of the major drivers behind unaffordable housing.
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