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Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

theguardian.com

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Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#171

Post by epicureanideal »

iforgot22 wrote: post #112
stavros wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's causing it in the US?

Same reason gold increases in $ value just by existing or people passively invest in S&P500. New money is created and it has to settle somewhere. There's plenty of cheap land or land that barely moves in value, but the desirable spots in cities are limited, so that's a natural place to invest.

Limited yes, but limited by regulation more than anything else. Within a 30 minute drive of SF there are hundreds of square miles to develop on. Pick a dozen at random and build residential skyscrapers. Problem solved.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#172

Post by qball »

OJFord wrote: post #167
qball wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>for Vancouver/BC especially The ALR bans any and all significant development in BC. Land is not scarce in BC; land that it's legal to build on is.

Ok - I'm not Canadian, idk what ALR is - I'm just saying what's disagreed with up-thread isn't what, in my experience, is the common claim (whether it's correct or not).

The Agricultural Land Reserve prohibits farmland from being sold for housing development. It's one of the oldest modern NIMBY policies.

Most of the land in BC is classified in this way.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#173

Post by epicureanideal »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #62
stavros wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's causing it in the US?

A housing bust in 2008 washed a lot of capital and talent out of the house construction industry, and the current boom is hard to supply with construction capacity even when there is land to build on. And also, even if the land exists, there is already a SFH on it that needs to be torn down, so we are densifying at a slower rate than we need to. Couple that with an even increasing focus of good job opportunities into…

There are robotic construction companies like FBR, and plenty of open stretches of land along highway 101, 680, 880, etc.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#174

Post by defrost »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #165
defrost wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I've a longterm "internet friend" and Cyprus resident/native who has been grumbling about this for two decades now, his principal complaint is the sheer number of Russians back dooring their way into becoming an EU company via Cyprus and screwing up the cost of living, housing, etc for the locals who suffer from the pressure of rich transients who do little for the community. A common enough templte compliant th…

> He'll also admit it's not just the Russians but many others also Limassol is friendly to Russians. If you're American, the go-to is Ireland, though Luxembourg is trying to eat their lunch. (If you're Chinese, Hungary and Poland.)

In short, there are significant business opportunities for EU citizens willing to front an EU company for other non EU parties.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#175

Post by iforgot22 »

fabrice_d wrote: post #163
iforgot22 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a hot real estate market, there will be more market pressure to fix the dilapidated properties in good areas. Say they instead keep values artificially low so an EU resident can buy a property for cheap, and it stays cheap. What's the benefit?

The benefit is that more people can afford to buy houses? Really surprising to see a country taking care of their people, and not just the wealthy ones! All the hypotheses claiming that "the market pressure will improve things for all" have been proven false at this point. We have decades of data, and this is only widening the inequality gap.

I don't see why this is better than people renting and investing their savings elsewhere, which is how it works with apartments anyway. So you own a house, it makes basically no return, now what?

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#176

Post by rednafi »

The issue is that countries expect foreigners to bring in money, earn a lot, and pay taxes at the 90th percentile, but they’re (the locals) reluctant to share resources in return. A 100% taxation model turns it into a one-way street. Sure, if you don’t need foreign investment, you can afford to do that. But let’s be real—welcoming foreigners isn’t an act of charity.

Governments usually do it because foreigners are often more productive, pay higher taxes, or fill jobs that locals don’t want. Turning it into a one-sided deal has consequences. Immigration policies are funny; every western country treats them like a magical cure-all, only to later blame immigration for any and every problem.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#177

Post by rgtank108 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #159
WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that argument assumes you can only blame 1 thing at a time. Even if the bureaucracy is the worst offender, every foreigner buying a house still results in 1 less house for Spaniards. Sure, fix bureaucracy, but don't pretend foreign purchases have zero effect.

> every foreigner buying a house still results in 1 less house for Spaniards In a very limited scope, sure. What that foreign capital also does is lower risk and thus capital costs for development and improvement. (In the event of a limited crisis, for lenders as well.) Whether the net effect goes one way or another is more complicated than what you describe. Put another way, if foreigners could only buy unbuilt unit…

What is this contrarian sophistry? In Europe foreigners often buy the most expensive historical real estate they can lay their hands on.

If they do build something, it is office buildings for investment that take up space and often remain empty (Chinese are good at that). These investments still take up space and drive up real estate prices.

Where do you even live?

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#178

Post by throwaway4aday »

louison11 wrote: post #139
WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that argument assumes you can only blame 1 thing at a time. Even if the bureaucracy is the worst offender, every foreigner buying a house still results in 1 less house for Spaniards. Sure, fix bureaucracy, but don't pretend foreign purchases have zero effect.

I'm not saying it has zero effect. I'm saying it's a misdirected effort that would cause them more harm than good. Spain isn't exactly in the fittest economic position. It needs to attract foreigners to cultivate its growth - hence their Beckham law and other benefits for foreigners. You can deter people from coming and see the country stagnate/go down, or you can actually match the demand and foreign dynamism, and u…

This is a quick "fix" that has a lot of unintended consequences. I've seen it first hand and the only people it benefits are those who are already wealthy. Everyone else gets a lot poorer as their cost of living skyrockets. Homelessness explodes as rents and housing costs increase dramatically, people who were living a humble but decent life before are pushed into poverty, crime both non-violent and violent increases and so does drug use. As far as I can tell the only people that actually benefit from this scheme are landlords and housing developers who slow walk their projects so that they can charge the maximum price per unit. Compared to the previous fairly stable state (which you call stagnation) the locals are much worse off. It also tends to ruin the character of places that were previously seen as a vacation destination for a unique experience, all of that just gets paved over and turned into a bland tourist trap barely different from any other place. Count yourself lucky if you live somewhere that has been passed over by this horrid money making scheme.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#179

Post by klipt »

WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #129
louison11 wrote: post #122

Blaming foreigners for housing prices is misdirected. The real culprit is slow bureaucracy & zoning laws making it impossibly slow to get a permit to build anything in both Spain and Portugal. Both of these countries for example have so many abandoned houses needing to be renovated, and so many foreigners coming in with money to do it - but they can never do it because you can't get a permit in literally forever... I…

No, that argument assumes you can only blame 1 thing at a time. Even if the bureaucracy is the worst offender, every foreigner buying a house still results in 1 less house for Spaniards. Sure, fix bureaucracy, but don't pretend foreign purchases have zero effect.

You could also argue that every Spaniard moving from the countryside to the cities takes away houses from Spaniards born in the cities.

Seems like an argument for internal visas like China's household registration system to prevent excessive migration to the cities.

The countryside is mostly emptying out so no need to prevent people moving or buying there.

Re: Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents

#180

Post by JumpCrisscross »

rgtank108 wrote: post #177
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every foreigner buying a house still results in 1 less house for Spaniards In a very limited scope, sure. What that foreign capital also does is lower risk and thus capital costs for development and improvement. (In the event of a limited crisis, for lenders as well.) Whether the net effect goes one way or another is more complicated than what you describe. Put another way, if foreigners could only buy unbuilt unit…

What is this contrarian sophistry? In Europe foreigners often buy the most expensive historical real estate they can lay their hands on. If they do build something, it is office buildings for investment that take up space and often remain empty (Chinese are good at that). These investments still take up space and drive up real estate prices. Where do you even live?

> In Europe foreigners often buy the most expensive historical real estate they can lay their hands on

Source? (I'm generally hugely sceptical of uniform statements about how capital behaves across the EU, let alone Europe.)

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