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What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

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Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#171

Post by nozzlegear »

prmoustache wrote: post #139
liontwist wrote: post #94

> Americans tend to be enthusiastic about their company mission - in the extreme, believing that they’re saving the world I would explain this as commitment signaling. I don’t know if they really believe it, but they want to show they are part of the team and the talking points. Adults use language in a less literal way than introverted engineers may be comfortable with.

> Americans tend to be enthusiastic about their company mission - in the extreme, believing that they’re saving the world As a european working in a US company, my experience is a lot of this is just hypocritical corporate bullshit. The difference can be incredible between the public communication which usually sounds like a huge parody and the opinion people really share behind the curtain in more private meetings.…

> Also being european you are usually used to be able to swear quite easily at work. What we perceive from the US culture that comes to us through movies/series would make us think it would be the same in the USA. However it is the opposite. People swear a lot less at work in the USA in my experience. At least online.

In the US it's generally considered rude or "uncouth" to swear in the workplace, unless it's in a private conversation with another coworker who's okay with it.

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#172

Post by [deleted] »

ajb wrote: post #105
RustyRussell wrote: post #57

Worked for American companies for 25 years. Generally Americans come across as more confident, and yet conform to hierarchy in a way I've never seen en-masse in Australian culture. It always seemed to be that only the most weirdo Americans are blind to relative status, whereas for many Australians it's the norm? Employment-at-will takes some cultural adjustment, too. But for tech folks tends to be a net win. You just…

When the UK startup I worked for was bought by a US company, that meant the support functions were consolidated and the IT guys had to join the US centralised IT dept. They visited the US, and the culture shock started to bite when the head of IT got a standing ovation just for walking into the room. (And this was an engineering company, so the head of IT wasn't the CTO).

[deleted]

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#173

Post by GJim »

liontwist wrote: post #102
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will say there are specifically some things my fellow Australians do have do in the USA that we would not in our home country. To my fellow Australians; when you go for the big tech job interview you often have to memorize the company mission statement and values. Yes it's a complete wank. You'll never use it internally. But i have seriously been asked about the companies mission statement for Meta, Google, Amazon…

Reading this thread I’m realizing maybe Americans better understand organizational politics, and this social technology is an unappreciated contributor to productivity. I agree this kind of thing is performative, but let’s steel man the other side. You are looking for a place to spend 8 hours a day doing your most skillful craft, and you don’t want to know what the organization is trying to achieve? Yes I understand…

> Reading this thread I’m realizing maybe Americans better understand organizational politics

Genuine LOL!

> you don’t want to know what the organization is trying to achieve?

You The point

A 'mission statement' is a load of wank. They have nothing whatsoever to do with what a company is trying to achieve. Indeed, they were satirised as such in the USA by Dilbert cartoons 30 years ago!

In Australia and Blighty (and no doubt many other places with a similar culture) "I haven't memorised the mission statement, because it is wank" will get you points for being honest and direct...... We don't like to play at fakery.

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#174

Post by GJim »

liontwist wrote: post #95
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say thats due to: (a) Australian culture being quite egalitarian, ie people there see other people just as people rather how much money or power they have, etc and (b) American management being more of the power tripping variety, so they're more likely to wield their power in a threatening and retaliatory fashion, and so underlings tend to be more deferential, including the at-will employment, as you say.

> American management being more of the power tripping variety That’s not an explanation. That’s just restating it. Why would Australians be less tempted by power? Could it be that Americans are more exposed to management and hierarchy in their youth?

>> American management being more of the power tripping variety

> That’s not an explanation. That’s just restating it. Why would Australians be less tempted by power

Sir would do well to compare Australian police with USA police. Unfortunately, such power tripping really is a thing in USA culture.

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#176

Post by hetman »

robbiep wrote: post #133
hetman wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose you very crudely modelled the spectrum of American attitudes on this topic using some kind of bell curve. I don't think many people across the pond realise just how far apart the American and Australian bell curve means would be. These kind of "the truth is unknowable" truisms may sound wise but don't really teach us very much about reality. On average, Australian culture views anyone, who even passively demo…

You used a shit example with the Woolies CEO - he was immediately absolutely reamed on every medium because of the sheer transparency of the stunt - him in his shirt with name tag in an empty shop and then chucking a wobbly when he didn’t like the questions. He blew it and he looked like a tool. I find the obsession we have with saying we have a problem with success absolutely does not translate to my lived experienc…

Alright, settle down. The only sources I saw laying into him over it were the ones that make this kind of critique their life mission (professional or otherwise). As for the broad population, in as much as I could tell, it seemed they were upset about pretty much everything but the shirt, which is what I'm more interested in for the purposes of this discussion. Certainly, every person I spoke to about it hadn't even noticed it until it was pointed out, and the trend online didn't strike me as particularly different. I guess we'll have to disagree in that we got a different read of the situation.

Pretty much everything else you said confirms just how ingrained the attitude under discussion is in this country. Which is hardly surprising. If it was perceived as aberrant by the majority then it wouldn't be commonplace.

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#177

Post by hetman »

missedthecue wrote: post #140
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet economic mobility, measured in terms of the likelihood that you die in a different income decile than you were born into, is lower in the USA than almost anywhere else in the developed world. How to reconcile? It's fairly easy ... there aren't that many millionaires. The US has a society, culture and economy that allows for their occurence perhaps "better" than most other places. But this doesn't reflect the like…

1 in 12 Americans are millionaires.

Which proves that talking about millionaires is no longer that socially relevant thanks to inflation. Somehow ten-millionaire doesn't have quite that ring though.

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#178

Post by nitwit005 »

> Americans tend to be enthusiastic about their company mission - in the extreme, believing that they’re saving the world - while Australians are more liable to think “it’s just a job, mate”.

There are some people who "drink the kool-aid" and believe that messaging, but it seems largely self serving.

Say you want to be a yes man (or woman) to get ahead. Why limit yourself to agreeing with your boss, when you can agree and also imply they are a hero?

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#179

Post by christopher8827 »

astrange wrote: post #170
christopher8827 wrote: post #134

Good to hear from another Australian. The tech industry is completed dead in Australia atm. I have been job hunting overseas in the EU as a result after the layoffs of 2022 but its damn hard.

We hired some people from CSIRO who did that seL4 thing that was quite impressive. The lack of productization was also impressive, to the point I don't know why they did it in the first place. Maybe I should ask them.

Who's we?

I'm mostly frontend dev + done some machine learning analysis for academic institutions.

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#180

Post by leptons »

pythonguython wrote: post #146
leptons wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the only people at my company So your sample size is 1 company? That's very anecdotal. And you're younger than 30, so you probably haven't worked at many companies. There are plenty of people in plenty of other companies that you've never met.

It sounded anecdotal because I shared an anecdote. I don’t have a research study on the topic. Still anecdotally, I’d say the same thing about my 3 internships, so I’ll say n = 4. Happy to hear your anecdotal experience or non anecdotal data.

My more qualified anecdote after 30 years in the industry is that you are wrong. I've worked with 20-somethings that have been all-in-drink-the-koolaid, as well as anyone of any age, as well as people of all ages that were there only there for the paycheck. It isn't "generational", it's a personality trait. You either have it or you don't.
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