Sonos CEO Patrick Spence steps down after disastrous app launch • Hacker News Board

Re: Sonos CEO Patrick Spence steps down after disastrous app launch

#71

Post by sofixa » Mon, Jan 13, 2025, 3:43 PM UTC

Workaccount2 wrote: post #57

sofixa wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re an Android user, the limitations are even more frustrating. Playing music directly from YouTube isn’t possible without jumping through hoops Unfortunately that's due to Google's bullshit. There's a lack of appropri APIs, that's why you'll notice that any "smart" audio device (by smart I mean, integrates directly with music streaming services/locally stored music) doesn't support YouTube nor YouTube Music.…

Soooo maybe Sonos could just put bluetooth on their speakers then? I get that google is shitty, but that doesn't make sonos a saint.

They could, but syncing between speakers when one of them gets a Bluetooth input will probably be flakey. And like 2/3 of Sonos' value prop is sync.

Re: Sonos CEO Patrick Spence steps down after disastrous app launch

#72

Post by raverbashing » Mon, Jan 13, 2025, 3:47 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #49

Remember when you could just plug in anything with an "aux" cord or line-level RCA connectors to your stereo and everything worked. We have gone so far backwards.

But there was an endless amount of people, even on this site throwing arguments as "BT is the future" or "you're just too poor to use BT because you don't want to buy a new headphone" yada yada yada

Yes, losing the wired connection is going backwards

Re: Sonos CEO Patrick Spence steps down after disastrous app launch

#73

Post by dlcarrier » Mon, Jan 13, 2025, 3:51 PM UTC

awnird wrote: post #11

Patrick destroyed a successful company, and will be receiving millions of dollars on exit. His current replacement was an executive at the failed Quibi service. Nothing in tech will improve until there are actual consequences for people like this. Serial failures just hop from job to job. ruining products and lives along the way.

It's not just the people at the top. It's totally normal and acceptable to release software that doesn't work. I can count the number of times that I couldn't complete a transaction in a physical store on one hand, but I regularly can't accomplish what I want on a web page or mobile interface because the software straight-up doesn't work.

This relevant XKCD is right on point: https://xkcd.com/2030/

The problem may have come from the top down, but now it's endemic to the entire industry, and in any large company no one, at any level, can make anything stable and reliable without completely failing at whatever metrics the company is using.

I think a large part of that is management-centric software design philosophies that push constant output and metrics over good software.

For example, Agile's four values could be read in a way that supports good software development, but in practice they are effectively asking for: prioritizing appearance and metrics, releases that are undocumented proofs of concept, sales-department directed capabilities, and feature creep.

It's so counter to the development of working software that the only explanation is that one of the signatories of the Agile Manifesto had stated: "The best way to get the right answer on the Internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer."

Re: Sonos CEO Patrick Spence steps down after disastrous app launch

#74

Post by dlcarrier » Mon, Jan 13, 2025, 4:00 PM UTC

Unfortunately, a release that bad is the norm for most companies. The reason it hurt Sonos so hard is that they only have the one product.

Re: Sonos CEO Patrick Spence steps down after disastrous app launch

#75

Post by Gvaskas » Mon, Jan 13, 2025, 4:00 PM UTC

dlcarrier wrote: post #73

awnird wrote: post #11

Patrick destroyed a successful company, and will be receiving millions of dollars on exit. His current replacement was an executive at the failed Quibi service. Nothing in tech will improve until there are actual consequences for people like this. Serial failures just hop from job to job. ruining products and lives along the way.

It's not just the people at the top. It's totally normal and acceptable to release software that doesn't work. I can count the number of times that I couldn't complete a transaction in a physical store on one hand, but I regularly can't accomplish what I want on a web page or mobile interface because the software straight-up doesn't work. This relevant XKCD is right on point: https://xkcd.com/2030/ The problem may ha…

[flagged]

Re: Sonos CEO Patrick Spence steps down after disastrous app launch

#76

Post by mleo » Mon, Jan 13, 2025, 4:01 PM UTC

Aaronmacaron wrote: post #48

I see a lot of negative comments in this thread about Sonos in general, which is interesting to me because I'm currently thinking about buying Sonos speakers. What exactly don't you like about it? Is there a good alternative to Sonos that ticks all the following boxes? - Connect two or more speakers wirelessly to get stereo sound (I hate cables) - Good support for different audio sources (bluetooth, Spotify, AirPlay,…

I've had a Sonos system going back 10 years now. I started with 6 or 7 speakers and now it is at 15 [9 zones] Sonos speakers and 12 HomePods [6 pairs]. There have been hiccups along the way:

- Migration from S1 to S2 having to replace early, older models such as Amp and Port. But have received some discounts on new speakers

- Unifi network & Sonosnet issues with STP. Mostly solved by disabling Sonosnet

- Sonos Roam speakers failing

While having occasional issues with the new app design, it hasn't impacted much on a day to day basis. I didn't use much of the features that were lost initially, though I can see how it would be damaging to those who do.

For playing whole home audio, I generally use Airplay integration and just group the speakers through AppleTV or iPad. I occasionally use the app to do so.

The value I receive from each: - Sonos supports surround sound, whereas the HomePods do not.

- Sonos is tied into home automation and some custom TTS announcements

- Sonos Amp works with outdoor speakers and can update the speakers

- The HomePod minis are small and less intrusive in certain areas of the home

- HomePods have access to Siri and home control

At one point I had several Echo devices, but it was annoying to constantly update that system for home automation integration. HomePods replaced all of those except for an Echo Show in the Kitchen.

I never use bluetooth, nor felt it is a missing feature of my Sonos system or HomePods.

Re: Sonos CEO Patrick Spence steps down after disastrous app launch

#77

Post by amelius » Mon, Jan 13, 2025, 4:07 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #58

amelius wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rewrite couldn't have caused this, because there was a single German developer who wrote a usable app, see this comment elsewhere [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42683999

I think the article actually goes into detail why a rewrite does cause these things. The reasons matter.

To me this reads more like a mismanagement issue than an issue caused by a rewrite.

Re: Sonos CEO Patrick Spence steps down after disastrous app launch

#78

Post by kristjansson » Mon, Jan 13, 2025, 4:21 PM UTC

subpixel wrote: post #61

IIRC Sonos emerged as a tool to allow you to access all of your music, from different speakers throughout your house. I might be glossing over some details but isn't this problem largely solved by other products almost everyone has now? Any cloud music service, a smart phone, and some bluetooth speakers? In my entire social network, I know of one person who has all of his music stored locally and who cares about the…

> isn't this problem largely solved by other products

No? I don’t want to use my speakers as output for all the audio from any given device, only the stream I want. So, the audio system needs to be capable of managing the stream itself, independent of the device I use to select/start/stop the stream. I don’t know of anything other than Sonos that manages that well.

(Never mind the sibling comments point about syncing multiple wireless speakers to play the same audio without perceptible lag)

Re: Sonos CEO Patrick Spence steps down after disastrous app launch

#79

Post by CookiesOnMyDesk » Mon, Jan 13, 2025, 4:23 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #67

chipgap98 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a strange gripe for this thread. That is something you could have looked up before purchasing the speaker. I also might be in the minority but I much prefer Wi-Fi streaming to Bluetooth in my house.

Wifi streaming is great if it's easy, but for me, Sonos makes it hard. My spouse uses the speakers pretty often, but even the old app wasn't great, and I gave up on it. Why can't I just cast the music from my Youtube music app? Why do I have to connect Sonos to Youtube, then wait for a separate app to pop up? I just end up playing music in my headphones, or on my phone speaker. The quality is worse, but the experienc…

>Why can't I just cast the music from my Youtube music app?

Because the YouTube app developers haven't implemented it? Casting via spotify works flawlessly in my experience, whether using airplay or letting spotify discover the speakers. No app hopping required.

Re: Sonos CEO Patrick Spence steps down after disastrous app launch

#80

Post by tmoertel » Mon, Jan 13, 2025, 4:29 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #64

lenerdenator wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't really structure business law to allow for the appropriate amount of risk. The whole point of incorporation is to limit liability and shift what remains off of individuals at the company. If you try to change this, you'll hear screeching about how there's just too much risk and the "job creators" will just take their capital and ideas to more business-friendly legal climes.

Eh, even keeping the mechanism of limited-liability-corporations around, some would say boards aren't representing shareholders' interests effectively. It's one thing for shareholders to say if under the CEO's leadership, the company's value rises by 100 million dollars, they'll give him a $10 million bonus. I can see how a board could approve that - it's a lot of money, but it's linked to performance. But should the…

One reason that CEOs get good severance packages is to entice them to leave other successful companies. If they are doing well at those other companies, are well liked by the board, and can reasonably expect to make a lot of money, why should they leave that safe, lucrative situation to come to your company, where there's a higher risk of failure or of falling out with the board? Enter the severance package. It guarantees the incoming execs a minimum payout that's large enough to entice them to give up what they'd expect to safely earn by staying where they are.