How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us? • Hacker News Board

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#181

Post by uriah » Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 9:31 PM UTC

scythe wrote: post #63

latch wrote: post #36

While it's really interesting to debate whether you should eat potatoes or beef, the real battle for the western world is that we stop eating processed foods. Wheat vs eggs seems like a silly debate when people are living off of Coke, Oreos and Capt'N Crunch. Whenever I hear these arguments, I feel like these scientists aren't living in the same world as me. "Eggs are ok, declare scientists" reads the headline while…

I've observed rather different things. The people I know who eat the most meat are the Crossfitters around me. They are, in almost all cases, healthy. I have a roommate who drinks fat-free milk and eats lots of salad and pasta, who avoids meat like the plague. He's been struggling with his weight for as long as I've known him. I drink coconut milk -- which contains nothing but fat -- and a meal usually consists of so…

Moderation is often a side effect of paleo diets, isn't it? Traditionally structured diets with high carbs, moderate protein, and low fat, similar to "Case B" can work well too (see: Japan). However, it's easy to overeat on such a diet compared to paleo.

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#182

Post by rprasad » Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 9:42 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #65

latch wrote: post #36

While it's really interesting to debate whether you should eat potatoes or beef, the real battle for the western world is that we stop eating processed foods. Wheat vs eggs seems like a silly debate when people are living off of Coke, Oreos and Capt'N Crunch. Whenever I hear these arguments, I feel like these scientists aren't living in the same world as me. "Eggs are ok, declare scientists" reads the headline while…

Since we are talking anecdotes and make-beliefs, I'll add what I saw with my own two eyes ... My grandfather was eating between 5 and 10 eggs per day, every day. He also drank at least 1 liter of home-made red whine per day, while being a big consumer of dairy products (also made in-house). Of course, because my grandparents lived on a farm and consumed what they produced or traded with neighbors, half of a normal we…

If only your grandfather had cut the pig bacon from his diet, he could have lived 3 more months to be 100...

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#183

Post by rprasad » Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 9:44 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #144

geon wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every observation is anecdotal until there are a lot of them.

"The Plural of Anecdote is Not Data"

Interestingly enough, multiple anecodates are data if you gather enough of them.

Most health-related studies are not true observational studies. Rather, they rely on self-reported (i.e., anecdotal) "data" from study participants.

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#184

Post by progrock » Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 9:57 PM UTC

uriah wrote: post #179

progrock wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that the associated brain damage linked to ecstasy makes it that safe in either form. Scientists can't assertain just yet as to whether the damage is human repairable or not.

I hadn't heard of the brain damage link. When searching for information on it, however, I mainly came across references to a study last year that said it is does not, in fact, cause brain damage. Additional mystery ingredients might be another story. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/feb/19/ecstasy-harm-b... http://www.addictionjournal.org/viewpressrelease.asp?pr=147

I was refering to long term effects caused by Serotonin depletion.

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#185

Post by pessimizer » Thu, Jul 19, 2012, 10:33 PM UTC

rprasad wrote: post #183

pessimizer wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Plural of Anecdote is Not Data"

Interestingly enough, multiple anecodates are data if you gather enough of them. Most health-related studies are not true observational studies. Rather, they rely on self-reported (i.e., anecdotal) "data" from study participants.

I'd assert that most health-related studies are terrible. Anecdotes are good for figuring out what to study, but can't be used in place of a study.

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#186

Post by ioquatix » Fri, Jul 20, 2012, 4:09 AM UTC

ufo wrote: post #138

ioquatix wrote: post #47

Why is this on Hacker News?

My same question. Reading this thread makes me feel like I am watching a PHP conference host a panel on language design.

Based on the down-votes I'm receiving I have to say I agree.

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#187

Post by bad_user » Fri, Jul 20, 2012, 10:01 AM UTC

jonnathanson wrote: post #131

Shivetya wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look towards your grandfather's daily activities and not just his diet. My grandparents too lived to a ripe old age eating foods that make so called experts cringe. The real difference between them and our generation was that they never led a sedentary lifestyle. Sometimes I believe the office style of work that many celebrate; because it freed them from the fields and such; probably is the least beneficial change we…

Chronic stress and sleep deprivation are known to have horrible effects on personal health -- up to, and including, fat storage and cardiovascular fitness. The extent of these effects has not received enough attention, and may be greater than we currently realize. I strongly suspect that, in the next ten or so years, we'll see a surge of scientific studies documenting the importance of these factors on health. Over t…

     People in the 70s and 80s ate nearly as much 
     processed junk as we do

I suspect you're from the US. Your statement is simply not true, at least not for Central/Eastern Europe.

For instance in Romania we had no McDonalds until the early 1990s and they were amongst the first to enter, before other junk food providers like KFC, Burger King and such. One friend from the US visiting me was surprised that we only have 2 or 3 Starbucks joints in our capital that has a population of more than 2 million people.

And regarding preprocessed junk, the trend is very recent here. People used to laugh at such things as low-fat milk, or frozen French-fries / Pizza.

The result: I've never seen so many obese people in my life as I've seen in the US, but we're catching up.

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#188

Post by mbrown77 » Fri, Jul 20, 2012, 1:28 PM UTC

Check out Fat Head. A Documentary response to Super Size Me that discusses how what we "know" about fat and cholesterol was the result of a politician lining his pockets by pushing the agenda of one of his friends in the business world http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Fat_Head/70115017?trkid=23...

Re: How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

#189

Post by jonnathanson » Fri, Jul 20, 2012, 3:09 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #187

jonnathanson wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chronic stress and sleep deprivation are known to have horrible effects on personal health -- up to, and including, fat storage and cardiovascular fitness. The extent of these effects has not received enough attention, and may be greater than we currently realize. I strongly suspect that, in the next ten or so years, we'll see a surge of scientific studies documenting the importance of these factors on health. Over t…

People in the 70s and 80s ate nearly as much processed junk as we do I suspect you're from the US. Your statement is simply not true, at least not for Central/Eastern Europe. For instance in Romania we had no McDonalds until the early 1990s and they were amongst the first to enter, before other junk food providers like KFC, Burger King and such. One friend from the US visiting me was surprised that we only have 2 or…

Sorry, I should have clarified that my implied frame of reference was the US. But you're right. There seems to be a pretty linear correlation between obesity rates and the "American way of life," however we want to quantify its variables: processed foods, sleep deprivation, etc. Generally speaking, the pursuit of convenience at the cost of all other considerations.

And I don't deny that processed foods are major factors in the obesity problem, and probably necessary factors. But I'm saying that they don't seem entirely sufficient to account for the increased obesity rates within the US, which has been gorging itself on processed junk for 30+ years now.