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Qubes OS: A reasonably secure operating system

qubes-os.org

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Re: Qubes OS: A reasonably secure operating system

#2
I would say, a little more hesitantly, that it deeply depends on what you are doing.

When interacting remotely with untrusted services, apps, or documents, Qubes cannot be beaten.

However, if I was afraid of my laptop getting attacked with an evil maid attack, I’m sticking with my Mac, Secure Boot, and FileVault; so that my Lock Screen is less likely to be patched against me. If I’m afraid of persistent malware, I want a platform that isn’t necessarily game over if the malware gets sudo privileges once. If I’m afraid of PIN guessing attempts to break in by brute force, I want something like a modern iPhone where the guessing limit is hardware enforced, not a Linux phone where it’s software enforced.

Same for if I were in a country with a hostile government. Nothing screams “I’m hiding something and I’m malicious” like using GrapheneOS or Qubes in Russia or China. They might not see your work, but the uncommon choices by itself makes you suspect. An iPhone and Mac over there suggests wealth, and would possibly socially increase your benefit of the doubt due to white collar associations; GrapheneOS and Qubes would shred all benefit of doubt you may have enjoyed.

I sometimes think of the Tor incident at a US College. I’m not encouraging this behavior, but a college student sent bomb threats to his university. He was identified, arrested, and convicted because he was the only one using Tor on the university network. A perfect example of how the “more secure” thing used without strategy can shoot yourself in the foot.

The point is: If you are reporting on military activity in the Donetsk region, don’t be the only person in the area using Qubes and Tor. Don’t be the only person in the area with a phone pinging GrapheneOS update servers, or a laptop pinging Qubes package repositories. Heck, don’t be the only guy with a phone on the cell network identifying as Android that inexplicably never talks to Google.

Re: Qubes OS: A reasonably secure operating system

#3
Have used it for several months as my daily OS and dropped it because of bad graphics performance (only software rendering supported, many frame drops when watching HD videos on YT) and bad battery management. Due to software rendering the overall systems perfmance also dropped. So I cannot recommend it for people with high requirements on graphics and battery duration. Besides that it was an interesting and good experience.

I think it would be good to make it possible to deactivate certain security features such as strict graphics isolation so that users can adjust their settings to their risk acceptance level. It would also be interesting to be able to optionally replace Xen with lighter isolation mechanisms, even if the user would compromise on security here too.

Re: Qubes OS: A reasonably secure operating system

#4

I would say, a little more hesitantly, that it deeply depends on what you are doing. When interacting remotely with untrusted services, apps, or documents, Qubes cannot be beaten. However, if I was afraid of my laptop getting attacked with an evil maid attack, I’m sticking with my Mac, Secure Boot, and FileVault; so that my Lock Screen is less likely to be patched against me. If I’m afraid of persistent malware, I wa…

https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/anti-evil-maid/

Re: Qubes OS: A reasonably secure operating system

#5
post #4

I would say, a little more hesitantly, that it deeply depends on what you are doing. When interacting remotely with untrusted services, apps, or documents, Qubes cannot be beaten. However, if I was afraid of my laptop getting attacked with an evil maid attack, I’m sticking with my Mac, Secure Boot, and FileVault; so that my Lock Screen is less likely to be patched against me. If I’m afraid of persistent malware, I wa…

https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/anti-evil-maid/

AEM is a little sketchy though, you need to trust a flash drive to hold it, and make sure that drive doesn’t get overridden by a malicious attacker. Your link goes more into depth about the disadvantages

Re: Qubes OS: A reasonably secure operating system

#7
A simple screenshot of the OS environment would have been nice. But generally, I don't think people adopt operating systems just by seeing new recommendations on Hacker News or different forums. Most people have settled on macOS and then Linux and then Windows. and within the Linux ecosystem most people just use Ubuntu or Fedora and that's it. I don't see anyone using these other esoteric operating systems as a daily driver. For servers it's a different story. We have OpenBSD and FreeBSD. and of course Linux. But that's about it. Even supercomputers run Linux. creating an operating system in 2025, aside from intellectual curiosity, isn't really pragmatic.

Re: Qubes OS: A reasonably secure operating system

#8
QubesOS was my main driver for a couple of years, but I have to say that the low battery life compared to only software rendering got pretty annoying after a while. Depending on the hardware, you'll need to possibly disable certain options in the BIOS/UEFI, like for an t490 that I documented: https://groups.google.com/g/qubes-users/c/Z0Kfm53zMxQ/m/IV-A...

Re: Qubes OS: A reasonably secure operating system

#9
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/anti-evil-maid/

AEM is a little sketchy though, you need to trust a flash drive to hold it, and make sure that drive doesn’t get overridden by a malicious attacker. Your link goes more into depth about the disadvantages

In some threat models, it's more feasible to protect a portable flash/SSD drive than an entire laptop.

In other threat models, laptops/tablets/phones could be physically secured in a safe, or kept under direct physical supervision.

Re: Qubes OS: A reasonably secure operating system

#10
post #8

QubesOS was my main driver for a couple of years, but I have to say that the low battery life compared to only software rendering got pretty annoying after a while. Depending on the hardware, you'll need to possibly disable certain options in the BIOS/UEFI, like for an t490 that I documented: https://groups.google.com/g/qubes-users/c/Z0Kfm53zMxQ/m/IV-A...

What to use instead if one cares about privacy and security (what I call personal sovereignty)? It's a non-rhetorical question.
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