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IP addresses through 2024

potaroo.net

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Re: IP addresses through 2024

#11

Post by mike_d »

ironhaven wrote: post #7

I feel like this blog does not accurately describe how large the ipv6 address space even after accounting for it being reduced by 2^64 for the host portion of the address. If it did it would make the concerned comments about /28 ipv6 network sizes seem very misplaced. A single static ipv4 address is a /32 slice into the ipv4 space and is considered a reasonable to size give out to a single person or even a small busi…

People get caught up in how many IPv6 addresses exist, as if we will always have enough to go around. Recently Capital One was assigned a /16, enough for every ATM in the US to be its own ISP and make its own customer allocations. We continue to repeat the same mistakes that made people believe we needed v6 in the first place.

We will never run out of IPv6, but I believe in my lifetime you won't be able to get new v6 allocations anymore because they will have all been handed out to the large corporations with deep pockets. Oops, no addresses left - but you can rent one from a cloud provider for a few dollars a month.

Re: IP addresses through 2024

#14

Post by wmf »

mike_d wrote: post #12
jacob019 wrote: post #2

Interesting how the IPv4 price has pulled back 30% since early 2022.

That is when Amazon stopped pouring money into buying up as much IPv4 as possible and the market returned to demand based pricing.

Is Amazon not demand? Do they exist outside economics?

(Legally they're supposed to use those addresses within a year(?) of buying them, but I won't pretend that anyone would really notice whether that's the case or not.)

Re: IP addresses through 2024

#15

Post by wpm »

mike_d wrote: post #11
ironhaven wrote: post #7

I feel like this blog does not accurately describe how large the ipv6 address space even after accounting for it being reduced by 2^64 for the host portion of the address. If it did it would make the concerned comments about /28 ipv6 network sizes seem very misplaced. A single static ipv4 address is a /32 slice into the ipv4 space and is considered a reasonable to size give out to a single person or even a small busi…

People get caught up in how many IPv6 addresses exist, as if we will always have enough to go around. Recently Capital One was assigned a /16, enough for every ATM in the US to be its own ISP and make its own customer allocations. We continue to repeat the same mistakes that made people believe we needed v6 in the first place. We will never run out of IPv6, but I believe in my lifetime you won't be able to get new v6…

Then, we’ll make IPv8, with 2^1024 address, which will be incompatible with IPv6 and IPv4 and all software on release, and will take decades before any appreciable uptake. Addresses will use hexadecimal, as well as the entire 4-byte Unicode table of emoji and Egyptian hieroglyphics, with octet separated by $ and { symbols for heightened readability.

Re: IP addresses through 2024

#16

Post by mike_d »

wmf wrote: post #14
mike_d wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is when Amazon stopped pouring money into buying up as much IPv4 as possible and the market returned to demand based pricing.

Is Amazon not demand? Do they exist outside economics? (Legally they're supposed to use those addresses within a year(?) of buying them, but I won't pretend that anyone would really notice whether that's the case or not.)

You know what I mean.

Re: IP addresses through 2024

#17

Post by cyberax »

ironhaven wrote: post #7

I feel like this blog does not accurately describe how large the ipv6 address space even after accounting for it being reduced by 2^64 for the host portion of the address. If it did it would make the concerned comments about /28 ipv6 network sizes seem very misplaced. A single static ipv4 address is a /32 slice into the ipv4 space and is considered a reasonable to size give out to a single person or even a small busi…

Except that IPv6 is actually not that large. You effectively can't use networks that are smaller than /64, because stateless autoconfiguration can't use any other prefix size (there's an effort to fix it, but it'll take a decade at best)

Re: IP addresses through 2024

#18

Post by immibis »

wpm wrote: post #15
mike_d wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People get caught up in how many IPv6 addresses exist, as if we will always have enough to go around. Recently Capital One was assigned a /16, enough for every ATM in the US to be its own ISP and make its own customer allocations. We continue to repeat the same mistakes that made people believe we needed v6 in the first place. We will never run out of IPv6, but I believe in my lifetime you won't be able to get new v6…

Then, we’ll make IPv8, with 2^1024 address, which will be incompatible with IPv6 and IPv4 and all software on release, and will take decades before any appreciable uptake. Addresses will use hexadecimal, as well as the entire 4-byte Unicode table of emoji and Egyptian hieroglyphics, with octet separated by $ and { symbols for heightened readability.

No, we won't do that.

Re: IP addresses through 2024

#19

Post by immibis »

cyberax wrote: post #17
ironhaven wrote: post #7

I feel like this blog does not accurately describe how large the ipv6 address space even after accounting for it being reduced by 2^64 for the host portion of the address. If it did it would make the concerned comments about /28 ipv6 network sizes seem very misplaced. A single static ipv4 address is a /32 slice into the ipv4 space and is considered a reasonable to size give out to a single person or even a small busi…

Except that IPv6 is actually not that large. You effectively can't use networks that are smaller than /64, because stateless autoconfiguration can't use any other prefix size (there's an effort to fix it, but it'll take a decade at best)

You can absolutely use them, you just need static or DHCP addressing just like the old days. But thanks SLAAC for forcing my ISP to give me /64 or bigger so I can always subnet into /96 for example.

Re: IP addresses through 2024

#20

Post by Dylan16807 »

ahsteele wrote: post #9
ironhaven wrote: post #7

I feel like this blog does not accurately describe how large the ipv6 address space even after accounting for it being reduced by 2^64 for the host portion of the address. If it did it would make the concerned comments about /28 ipv6 network sizes seem very misplaced. A single static ipv4 address is a /32 slice into the ipv4 space and is considered a reasonable to size give out to a single person or even a small busi…

It’s really hard to even comprehend how large IPv6 is. I have found that extreme examples tend to help people get there. Here are some I’ve used in the past. There are enough IPv6 Addresses for 4.77 x 10^28 for every living person. If each IPv6 address was a grain of sand… That’s 2.39 × 10^18 of addresses per person, or roughly enough sand sized addresses to equal about 1.8 times the volume of earths ocean per person…

I think it's more useful to comprehend it as 64+64 though.

We can give every person a million local networks, with unlimited devices on each local network. That's more accurate and also easy to think about.

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