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Visualizing All ISBNs

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Re: Visualizing All ISBNs

#131

Post by edflsafoiewq »

nickelpro wrote: post #104
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm saying that the ISBN doesn't describe titles, it describes editions, and editions matter.

You said: > From a strict point of view, they've released new editions of these books. And this is clearly a semantically worthless distinction from the point of view of the archive. When different editions have different content, archiving those differences in that content may matter (arguably not for simple typographical corrections, printing errors, etc). When different ISBNs have identical content, it is totally…

This is addressed somewhat in the "The critical window of shadow libraries" post

> Until now, the only options to shrink the total size of our collection has been through more aggressive compression, or deduplication. However, to get significant enough savings, both are too lossy for our taste. Heavy compression of photos can make text barely readable. And deduplication requires high confidence of books being exactly the same, which is often too inaccurate, especially if the contents are the same but the scans are made on different occasions.

Re: Visualizing All ISBNs

#132

Post by jillesvangurp »

carlosjobim wrote: post #107
jillesvangurp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with such judgment is that they are subjective and subject to biases that change over time. Almost every scrap of information from ancient civilizations is considered priceless at this point because so few is left of it. Anything from obscene graffiti, shopping lists, personal messages, etc. All of it. Many autocratic regimes editorialize and censure all forms of publications. But even in the US, which is…

> you now have states like Florida forcing changes to literature works and banning books entirely for religious and ideological reasons. This is not honest. They're not banning any books, they are stopping school teachers from forcing certain books on children. The difference is immense.

I think that's a pretty biased misrepresentation of the facts. Florida is denying children access to those books by actively forcing teachers to not talk about them (or educate kids about their content). Teachers in violation are at risk of being fired (several have been fired). Schools are being threatened with getting their funding cut. They are also forbidding libraries from having those books.

And of course, the list of books is getting pretty long and what's on that list is basically determined by a very small but vocal group of christian conservatives with uptight opinions on things like science, evolution, sexuality, and other things they insist are wrong/evil/dangerous.

So they are not technically banning anything. But they are punishing people that go against this nonetheless. Which makes it kind of a ban. It doesn't go as far as Nazi book burnings. But I have just about as much sympathy for the people that did as I have for those insisting e.g. Harry Potter must not be in a school library succeeding with that because the threats against teachers and schools are very real and these people wield a lot of power, apparently. Bullying teachers and librarians into complying with this seems to happen a lot in Florida. That's not banned at all and actively encouraged.

What's next Uncle Tom's Cabin? Oh wait that actually happened as well in some schools. Because these people also include some racists and xenophobes. You might call some of these people fascists even. And they just don't like being reminded of things like slavery.

Re: Visualizing All ISBNs

#133

Post by reddalo »

xp84 wrote: post #82
Freak_NL wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for KPN: http://195.121.82.125/ Would Tweak have blocked this? Most households in the Netherlands currently have the choice of Ziggo, KPN, and Odido. Long live VPNs…

Is that three broadband providers serving the same address?? You guys are so lucky you don’t even know. In America we generally have a choice of one if you aren’t including Starlink or legacy slow satellite. And perhaps a joke of a 1-6Mbps DSL option in some parts.

Oh wow, don't look at Italy so! At my current address I have coverage from at least 7 different providers (even though they're all based on only 3 different infrastructures/lines).

Re: Visualizing All ISBNs

#134

Post by wizzwizz4 »

Over2Chars wrote: post #122
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you're doing it on purpose, but this is Holocaust denial. The Nazis did destroy all extant copies of several works – for example, research of the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft . (Edit: Some Judaica were sent to Prague instead of being destroyed – though apparently Hitler's planned Judaism Museum is an urban myth.) They absolutely were trying to utterly destroy – not just symbolically reject – vast swa…

Hmm... Godwin's law much? My argument is that the symbolic rejection, not the practical destruction of books, was important. Also, I pointed out through a subtle (too subtle for you so I'll spell it out: this is a wholly irrelevant argument - arguing that books don't deserve to be backed up has nothing to do with book burning ) - so I played along - as I noted. Get it? The practical destruction of all books considere…

The Nazis did destroy (or order destroyed) books quietly and privately, but large collections are easier to destroy in place. The more famous Nazi book burnings occurred prior to World War Two.

When I said "that's Holocaust denial", I wasn't saying "you're a Nazi", but pointing out an accidental mistake. If I thought it were deliberate, I wouldn't have said anything.

Your argument about the symbolic meaning of public book burnings is irrelevant (and I'm not sure why you brought it up), but there very much is a parallel between calling for the destruction-by-bitrot of books, and calling for the destruction-by-fire of books. (Again, I am not calling you a Nazi.)

Re: Visualizing All ISBNs

#135

Post by aspenmayer »

CaptainFever wrote: post #126
friend_Fernando wrote: post #114

Isn't it interesting how certain online forces affiliated with the letter Z are against copyright for Western IP in general, but are pro copyright when it comes to hamstringing Western AI?

The letter Z? What does that mean?

Probably a reference to Z-Library, or as a stand-in for Russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-Library

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_(military_symbol)

Re: Visualizing All ISBNs

#136

Post by graypegg »

n2d4 wrote: post #106
graypegg wrote: post #90

I see that bounty at the bottom, so tossing away my chances here, but this visualization is just asking to be mapped onto a Hilbert Curve. [0] When you "stripe" the data like this, points that are sorted close together could end up pretty far apart, since a distance in the Y axis skips an entire row of data as you move down, rather than a distance in the X axis which is 1-to-1 with the source data. If you map it onto…

What property makes the Hilbert curve desirable compared to, say, a snake pattern, with which neighbouring ISBNs are also neighbours in the visualisation? The worry I have with Hilbert curves is that they make the result look like there are distinct "squares" of data [0] when really this is just an artifact of how Hilbert curves work. In that sense, the current visualization is more useful, because it's straightforwa…

In a snake pattern, the neighbouring pixels on the left and right are related, but the ones above and below have skipped a whole row.

And yeah that’s true! you end up with squares with Hilbert curves. But those squares are all « related » data. Then those squares are related to the squares near it. Zoom out more and that grouping of squares is related to the neighbouring macro-squares etc etc.

Basically the square shape is a positive. Kind of like how charting the derivative lets you see how random/related information is, grouping into these squares gives you a visualization of pattern-ness, rather than any specific measurement.

Re: Visualizing All ISBNs

#137

Post by Over2Chars »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #134
Over2Chars wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm... Godwin's law much? My argument is that the symbolic rejection, not the practical destruction of books, was important. Also, I pointed out through a subtle (too subtle for you so I'll spell it out: this is a wholly irrelevant argument - arguing that books don't deserve to be backed up has nothing to do with book burning ) - so I played along - as I noted. Get it? The practical destruction of all books considere…

The Nazis did destroy (or order destroyed) books quietly and privately, but large collections are easier to destroy in place. The more famous Nazi book burnings occurred prior to World War Two. When I said "that's Holocaust denial", I wasn't saying "you're a Nazi", but pointing out an accidental mistake. If I thought it were deliberate, I wouldn't have said anything. Your argument about the symbolic meaning of public…

Like I pointed out, the original reply linked my suggestion that 41% of books weren't worth backing up to "book burning".

So, in the spirit of rebuttals to random non-sense, I pointed out that there was no link at all to my comment and book burnings, but... I repeat myself.

Suggesting that backing up garbage books is not worthwhile, is apparently analogous to wanting all garbage you selectively oppose to be burned, in public.

So, by extension, the Nazi's can be condemned for not only burning books, but refusing to make backup copies of them.

I hope that clears this up.

Re: Visualizing All ISBNs

#138

Post by Over2Chars »

lyu07282 wrote: post #128
Over2Chars wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rule that dates back to when books were rare, expensive, and useful I suspect. Many books are just electronic garbage at this point, and backing them all up is like going to a landfill and saying "We should make another one, exactly like this one, in case this landfill proves to be valuable to someone, someday." It might be useful for LLM training to produce garbage. Although many say they already do a good job at…

I don't think you seriously suggest that there aren't books worth saving published even today, so the argument left over is who determines what is worth saving? The only reasonable answer to that question is: nobody.

I think that there are books published today - especially published today - that aren't worth "saving".

I'd start with every single AI generated book that's said to be available on Amazon (300 or so iirc).

And people can and do judge things all the time: Nobel prizes, juried contests, review boards, movies, music, and yes - even books! - as being worthwhile or garbage. Rotten tomatoes, Nobel prize committees, and so on.

So yeah, I think your answer is not the only reasonable one. And maybe 41% is way too low.

Re: Visualizing All ISBNs

#139

Post by n2d4 »

graypegg wrote: post #136
n2d4 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What property makes the Hilbert curve desirable compared to, say, a snake pattern, with which neighbouring ISBNs are also neighbours in the visualisation? The worry I have with Hilbert curves is that they make the result look like there are distinct "squares" of data [0] when really this is just an artifact of how Hilbert curves work. In that sense, the current visualization is more useful, because it's straightforwa…

In a snake pattern, the neighbouring pixels on the left and right are related, but the ones above and below have skipped a whole row. And yeah that’s true! you end up with squares with Hilbert curves. But those squares are all « related » data. Then those squares are related to the squares near it. Zoom out more and that grouping of squares is related to the neighbouring macro-squares etc etc. Basically the square sh…

> In a snake pattern, the neighbouring pixels on the left and right are related, but the ones above and below have skipped a whole row.

But this is also true in Hilbert curves across the boundaries of the "squares" that I mentioned. The two center pixels in the top row are much more distant than any two pixels would be in a snake pattern.

Re: Visualizing All ISBNs

#140

Post by wayathr0w »

glimshe wrote: post #89

Anna's archive is one of the wonders of the world. If we almost destroyed our species but Anna's archive endured, there would be hope for a relatively expedient reconstruction.

>relatively expedient reconstruction

If self-destruction is a necessary premise here, is that really a good thing?

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