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EFF, Reddit, Mozilla, others launch Internet Defense League and Cat Signal

internetdefenseleague.org

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Re: EFF, Reddit, Mozilla, others launch Internet Defense League and Cat Signal

#31
As a multicultural person who has lived in more than one country, as usual when I see initiatives like this, I wonder how well they will work in China, behind the Great Firewall.

http://www.greatfirewallofchina.org/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17910953

I posted a Chinese saying attributed to Confucius the last time we discussed an effort to use the Internet to bring about more transparency.

始吾於人也,聽其言而信其行。今吾於人也,聽其言而觀其行。"At first my attitude toward people was to listen to their words and to trust their deeds. Now my attitude toward people is to listen to their words and observe their deeds."

I listen to the words "Internet freedom should not be restricted" and I say, as people did during the 1960s civil rights movement, "Right on!" But then I observe deeds and I wonder if anyone has an effectual plan to stop the prior restraint of all print publications in China or the direct party cadre oversight of all broadcast media in China. I can access the Chinese media (and do) just fine, via the World Wide Web, but the common people of China, even the many who now have Internet access, are far from being able to access any available news source from anywhere around the world to the same degree that most Hacker News participants can.

All kinds of tough world problems would be easier to solve if the common people of China (and Russia, and a few other countries) had less restricted access to news and information, both about the country they live in and all other countries, and more opportunity to practice political dissent and open discussion of public policy, culminating in voting for national leaders in free and fair elections. If an Internet Cat Signal helps bring that about, I'm all for it. But if the Cat Signal serves mostly as yet another silly publicity tie-in for a Hollywood movie, I have better uses of my time and the server for my personal website than to link into the project.

I would really like to see an Internet freedom project that has significant advice and direction from political dissidents experienced with one-party dicatorial regimes, such as the current regime in China. Such a project could help Western Internet freedom activists better understand what issues really matter, and what technical means can overcome determined governmental opposition.

See

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/world/july-dec12/dictators_07...

for examples of research on this important topic.

Best wishes to everyone working for more free flow of information to more people all over the world.

Re: EFF, Reddit, Mozilla, others launch Internet Defense League and Cat Signal

#33
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

use a browser that blocks third party cookies by default. safari does, opera does and google has an option buried somewhere 9 clicks away in the settings.

I think the poster has a legitimate point. As an end user you can protect yourself, but as an organization that cares about Internet freedom it's a legitimate concern to consider: "Are we enabling tracking through the use of our advocacy, and if so can we avoid that." Although, I wouldn't go so far as to say that I can't take them seriously because they decided to use the buttons.

I think this organization has bigger issues than facebook buttons on its website

Re: EFF, Reddit, Mozilla, others launch Internet Defense League and Cat Signal

#34
post #19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How else do you propose they get the word out without Facebook/Twitter etc. buttons?

I'm not against using these buttons, the harmful/annoying thing is that they're used to set tracking cookies. The most simple solution would be to put them on an extra page or only enable them when the user clicks some button. But I'm sure if smart people think about it they find much more solutions. Obviously the designers of this site didnt, and thats what I dont like- being against "bad monopolies" and giving FB m…

one thing at a time. the purpose of this is to have a more effective, durable 'internet lobby'. not to make everyone get rid of fb buttons.

Re: EFF, Reddit, Mozilla, others launch Internet Defense League and Cat Signal

#35
post #30
post #4

Well it embodies the best and the worst of internet movements. While the foundations are good: protecting the web from bad laws, restrictions etc... the execution is really ridiculous. Imagine you're an old style Senator or representative and you see that website with a weird ass looking cat... Do you really think it's going to make them think you're anything but a joke? I find that the words used are equally ridicul…

What? This is an awesome design and approach which will appeal to most people. Everyone's seen Batman, watched cartoons and comedies. This hooks into popular culture and uses it to deliver a message. I don't see references to memes here - can you point any out? Besides, just what the hell is wrong with cats? Maybe you're a dog person but a lot of us are not. Elitist.

The easiest position to take when disagreeing with someone is to stick a label on the opposition as if this justifies that you should not take their argument seriously.

I for one think he has a point and if you don't please come up with something better than name calling.

Re: EFF, Reddit, Mozilla, others launch Internet Defense League and Cat Signal

#36
post #19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How else do you propose they get the word out without Facebook/Twitter etc. buttons?

I'm not against using these buttons, the harmful/annoying thing is that they're used to set tracking cookies. The most simple solution would be to put them on an extra page or only enable them when the user clicks some button. But I'm sure if smart people think about it they find much more solutions. Obviously the designers of this site didnt, and thats what I dont like- being against "bad monopolies" and giving FB m…

>You could just, you know, choose not be logged in with facebook. Im not.

I dont even have an account.

EDIT: It doesn't matter BTW if you're logged in. The cookie will still be set.

>And as for tracking cookies: every website has them to some extend. And every browser lets you pick the policy you prefer.

That's true, but I think it's just careless from the designers to leave out something like this on a website standing for a mission to get rid of "bad monopolies". It's obviously not a big thing, but still something which makes me scratch my head.

>But if you care some much.. Go help them out!

Yeah, I should do that since I'm bitching here.

Re: EFF, Reddit, Mozilla, others launch Internet Defense League and Cat Signal

#37

As a multicultural person who has lived in more than one country, as usual when I see initiatives like this, I wonder how well they will work in China, behind the Great Firewall. http://www.greatfirewallofchina.org/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17910953 I posted a Chinese saying attributed to Confucius the last time we discussed an effort to use the Internet to bring about more transparency. 始吾於人也,聽其言而信其行。今吾於…

I think the point of the cat signal is nothing to do with promotion of Hollywood movies and everything with trying to rally the people who have a strong understanding and interest in the freedom of the internet.

Think something like the NRA or NAACP, but for the internet. Things like the EFF are cool but not nearly as popular and accessible as things like NRA.

Unfortunately there is very little which western political groups can do to force the hand of the Chinese government with regard to censorship.

Re: EFF, Reddit, Mozilla, others launch Internet Defense League and Cat Signal

#38

As a multicultural person who has lived in more than one country, as usual when I see initiatives like this, I wonder how well they will work in China, behind the Great Firewall. http://www.greatfirewallofchina.org/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17910953 I posted a Chinese saying attributed to Confucius the last time we discussed an effort to use the Internet to bring about more transparency. 始吾於人也,聽其言而信其行。今吾於…

> I would really like to see an Internet freedom project that has significant advice and direction from political dissidents experienced with one-party dicatorial regimes, such as the current regime in China. Such a project could help Western Internet freedom activists better understand what issues really matter, and what technical means can overcome determined governmental opposition.

So Tor then?

Re: EFF, Reddit, Mozilla, others launch Internet Defense League and Cat Signal

#39
post #4

Well it embodies the best and the worst of internet movements. While the foundations are good: protecting the web from bad laws, restrictions etc... the execution is really ridiculous. Imagine you're an old style Senator or representative and you see that website with a weird ass looking cat... Do you really think it's going to make them think you're anything but a joke? I find that the words used are equally ridicul…

>it really feels like a little club of geeks trying to have an impact in the world

What's wrong with that? Go geeks! Don't you think the first time the "Cat Signal" is activated, it will make the news, and bring attention to the issue?

Also, old senators die. We'll replace them with redditors.

Re: EFF, Reddit, Mozilla, others launch Internet Defense League and Cat Signal

#40

It seems a little strange that they want their users to put hosted JavaScript on their sites. Just doesn't feel like "freedom" to me. Couldn't they control a lot of sites or steal information by changing that script to something malicious?

Do you have g+ / tweet / like buttons on your site? Google Analytics? Disqus? jQuery CDN?

For that matter, have you ever run "yum update httpd" without reviewing the source code first?
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