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Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

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Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#441

Post by dns_snek »

throw5959 wrote: post #404
epistasis wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's at best a less-than-complete view of immigration. For immigrants themselves, it is usually an issue of self-determination and freedom. I can't say I'm fully privy to the immigration debate in Canada, but framing it as an issue of "growth" could not be a complete view of the advocates of immigration. Especially with the level of acceptance of refugees in Canada. The not enough housing aspect is completely incid…

Everybody cares about growth. The world will end the minute we finally stop growing. The entire economic system and society will unravel

I don't care about growth, nor do most people I know. We don't need to endlessly consume to be happy. The world won't end when this economic system unravels either, it's not the first and it won't be the last one to fail.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#442

Post by stefantalpalaru »

thePhytochemist wrote: post #50

This issue is very relevant for me since I have been homeless since May. It's been a bad run of being a target of criminal activity, unemployment and just running out of money during my job search. I cope with a mix of volunteering, overpriced housing (think $1200/month for a room in a rural area before I ran out of money for that), catsitting, house-sitting, staying with family and sleeping in my ancient car. Althou…

[dead]

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#443

Post by lifestyleguru »

smcl wrote: post #430
sylware wrote: post #264

Wait, in finland, homeless means death most of the time. This is creepy.

Alright what are the odds that Finland’s famous and much lauded approach to reducing homelessness was actually nonsense, and you’re the first person to tell the truth: that it’s actually because the homeless all just froze to death? That’d mean every news outlet has somehow ignored it, there are no whistleblowers and nobody else has bothered to look at any data on it.

If life taught me something, it's that the brutal answer is usually the right one. The world somehow undeservedly give enormous credit to the social systems of Nordic countries. Simply look at the numbers. Finland for a country larger than Poland and UK has only 5m inhabitants. Another "fun fact" - Sweden has worse wealth inequality than Russia.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#444

Post by amanaplanacanal »

cyberax wrote: post #302
Qwertious wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and bringing too many people into the country via immigration. In a functioning economy, more immigration will just result in more housing being built , as long as the immigrants are working. Especially since the cost of housing construction is largely the cost of labor. Immigration is a distraction from the core inability to build more housing.

In a functioning economy, people won't be feeling pressure to move into a handful of population centers. Canada has PLENTY of free space for construction, and modern construction is pretty cheap and efficient. But economic forces are concentrating the growth in a few areas. Well-intentioned efforts to force "affordable housing" and "walkable neighborhoods" make these forces even worse. The root cause fix is to stop t…

People have been moving from rural areas to cities since the beginning of the industrial revolution. People want to improve their economic lot, and that is the most likely way to do it. I didn't know of it is even possible to stop that in a capitalist society.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#445

Post by sylware »

lifestyleguru wrote: post #443
smcl wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright what are the odds that Finland’s famous and much lauded approach to reducing homelessness was actually nonsense, and you’re the first person to tell the truth: that it’s actually because the homeless all just froze to death? That’d mean every news outlet has somehow ignored it, there are no whistleblowers and nobody else has bothered to look at any data on it.

If life taught me something, it's that the brutal answer is usually the right one. The world somehow undeservedly give enormous credit to the social systems of Nordic countries. Simply look at the numbers. Finland for a country larger than Poland and UK has only 5m inhabitants. Another "fun fact" - Sweden has worse wealth inequality than Russia.

As far I understand things, due to the weather and climate over there, anybody not in a seriously built home properly connected to utility networks is literaly dead. And those home must be properly maintained, not to mention they must have some empty spares, which must stay empty but ready, in case some nasty big local event does happen.

In other words, you better be welcomed over there, or you'll die, literaly.

And with climate change, I wonder if the current weather computer simulations on the new climate we are creating will generate extreme cold events in more southern countries, long enough event to kill many homeless if not all.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#446

Post by kmmlng »

tlogan wrote: post #318

I wanted to point out that the approach adopted by Finland may not be suitable for the United States. Finland has a population of only 5.6 million—less than two-thirds of the Bay Area—so their solutions, unfortunately, may not scale effectively in a larger, more complex environment. The other - even more important issue with all these approaches, however, lies in treating all homeless individuals as a single category…

You sound like you have a good overview. Is there any chance you could point me into the direction of good literature? I'm used to reading scientific literature and would love to learn a bit more, ideally through reviews and meta-analyses.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#447

Post by bregma »

dbspin wrote: post #410
bnralt wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> edit: I should mention that I've seen fairly convincing cross-sectional evidence that homelessness is more related to the housing market than mental illness: https://www.ucpress.edu/books/homelessness-is-a-housing-prob ... , https://www.nahro.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/NAHRO-Summi ... The problem is that there are very different groups of people we're talking about, so much so that throwing them all under the "…

Downright shocking that a policy like this would be adopted without the necessary social supports in place. There should be regular visits by care workers, addiction councillors, mental health professionals, access to education and jobs programmes etc. Even in the absence of mental illness and addiction (which are of course both rise in unhoused populations) living on the street leaves people with enormous unaddresse…

The policy gets the street people out of the line of sight of the wealthy and vocal while minimizing their participation in society (ie. their tax burden). In other words it buys them their own peace of mind while letting them keep more for themselves.

An actual effective policy would mean the privileged giving up some of their privile. Keeping one's privilege is a far stronger motivator than ending someone else's suffering or doing good.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#448

Post by TypingOutBugs »

goodpoint wrote: post #399
carlosjobim wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if culture springs from genetic inheritance? How do you change that?

Huh?!

Cultural evolution in genetics is a current topic of research

For example:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioral-and-brain...

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#449

Post by amanaplanacanal »

lostlogin wrote: post #240
teractiveodular wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck getting commie blocks pushed through planning approvals today. NIMBYs in general are violently against any kind of public housing.

> NIMBYs in general are violently against any kind of public housing. It’s more complicated than that. I’m massively pro public housing. I hate living next to it. A poorly managed emergency housing facility is just a shit show. Violence, noise, rubbish, human and animal abuse, property damage, police attendance, debt collectors, smell, rodents, animal attacks, threats, overgrown plants etc, all within the last year,…

Nobody wants to live next to the poors. Best way to do that is to keep housing expensive.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#450

Post by summeroflove20 »

lifestyleguru wrote: post #403
yieldcrv wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not a single thing In San Francisco studies of their populations revealed lots of segments of homeless people The one that stuck out to me the most was the most distressing: people that were homeless within last 12 months of the study, a huge percent of them were just people that left a relationship. That was a housing price problem. I knew so many people that had broken up but still living together, and its craz…

Yes this is absolutely the case also in Europe. In Berlin or Munich you're not going to rent anything as a single person. In Warsaw or Prague you'll not afford to rent anything on one local income (assuming you even have a job there currently).

You sure about this? Not every single person works in service, hospitality or blue-collar jobs.
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